Interesting post on increasing SHA256 mining efficiency

Discussion in 'Crypto Assets' started by NoahA, Aug 17, 2023.

  1. NoahA

    NoahA

    Yes, but the reason they get harder to mine is because we need to keep an average block time of 10 minutes. Clearly if you are guessing, and there are more people guessing, we arrive at the right answer faster.

    Its like if I think of a number between 1 and 100, and 2 people are guessing, they can only yell out so many numbers are once. Maybe they hit the right one in 30 seconds. But if 50 people are guessing, someone will yell the right one out in 2 seconds. So then if I want to keep the game going for the same 30 seconds, I now have to to increase the data set, and say guess a number between 1 and 5000, because now with 50 people guessing, it will still take about 30 seconds on average.

    The difficulty adjustment is one of the pivotal backbones of how the network works.
     
    #11     Aug 19, 2023
    johnarb likes this.
  2. deaddog

    deaddog

    I'll respond one point at a time.
    Once the halving takes place that means that it will cost twice as much to mine a bitcoin. So unless the price doubles the miners will not be as cost efficeint. I know the price has historically gone up with the halving, but what if it doesn't.

    Using old technology that wasn't efficient in the past will make it less efficient once the reward is halved. Isn't that like investing in hard wired telephones.


    I have lived through all sorts of crises. All were end of the world senarios according to the media. In the mid 70's we had runaway inflation; I had an 18% mortgage. Everyone one of them was solved or went away as a newer better crisis appeared. Most of them caused the government to raise a new tax which didn't help a bit. But somehow we muddled through and are where we are today. Nothing has really changed. Everything costs more but wages have kept up and the social safety net now catches more people. When I look back I'm as well off with more conveniences now that I ever have been. I'm more concerned about natural disasters than I am about a financial collapse.

    I take it you are still waiting for a better price to invest. For a guy who is bullish AF on bitcoin you seem reluctant to jump in with both feet and make a major commitment.

    I don't have any right now. I'm content to wait and see what happens. Hate to tie up any capital in something that's not moving my way.
     
    #12     Aug 19, 2023
  3. In a roundabout way. The best explanation I have heard to date is "Owning Bitcoin means you are short the US dollar."

    I own very little BTC right now. I don't understand the shiny attraction to BTC when ETH can be used just as easily, but it has an impenetrable moat, which is why value investors love it so much.

    While BTC rides off ETH developments and adoption, ETH also will increase in price as the halving occurs in the other commodity.

    This halving will be very interesting to me, because every time we have one the perma-bears insist that 'this time will be different'. There is always an excuse. This time the argument is that interest rates are too high, so "Bit-Fuck. It's going to zero! Zero... Zero...!" - Dan Pena (who knows the guy)
     
    #13     Aug 19, 2023
  4. NoahA

    NoahA

    Oh ya, this may actually be it... and it sounds better than mine! LOL

    Are you sure about this? I don't want to say that ETH is a shitcoin like some maximalists would, and I can certainly see the power of defi and all that other stuff in the future. But ETH has many drawbacks, one of which being permission. You are at the mercy of validators, who are captured by governments. Bitcoin is in a class of its own. I'm also not saying that ETH can't appreciate in price faster than BTC, but the limitations have to be considered.
     
    #14     Aug 19, 2023
    johnarb likes this.
  5. You can check the price history. The correlation almost makes them behave like twins. Some like to argue that BTC is the flight-to-safety, but it's not by much. And one can make a counter-case debating the fippening.

    In any case... the two don't seem to stray far.
     
    #15     Aug 19, 2023
  6. NoahA

    NoahA

    Agreed. There is no guarantee. At some point, if price doesn't keep up, then miners will go offline, the difficulty to mine bitcoin comes down, and we would reach some equilibrium point. But I suspect that many miners are in it for the long haul and can sit through a deep down cycle. Its just like we traders focus on expectancy. Small chance of a big win makes for positive expectancy if you have a long enough time horizon. And I think many of us would say its a big chance for a huge win.

    Totally wrong analogy. These ASICs just aren't as efficient when you consider the cost of electricity, the block reward, and the bitcoin price. Its not that its a whole different technology like a dial up phone vs. a smart phone. Its no different than electric car vs. gas car. Right now, it maybe costs $20 to "fill" up your electric car vs. $100 to fill up the gas car. But if electricity spiked so high that the fill up would be $120, you'd go back to using your gas car.

    Or maybe even better, if you were operating an uber service and the cost of rides spiked so much that even your gas car was efficient enough to turn a profit, you would put your gas car on the road as well in addition to your electric car.

    Oh boy do you need to change this viewpoint. Real incomes against everything has actually gone down. Here is a chart that shows productivity gains vs. compensation.

    2023-08-19 1747.50.png

    Here is a chart of incomes vs. house values.

    2023-08-19 1749.12.png

    I can go on and on to cite examples. The key is that workers are worse off. I know you're an older guy, and frankly, its your generation that is stealing all the wealth but expecting all the benefits. Most healthcare costs are because of old people, and all you're going to do is saddle the next generation with the bill, long after you are gone. The old farts in congress are only making sure the system survives another decade or two because that is how long they have to live, and they don't give a fuck that someone else is going to pay the bill.

    I'm in for over 75% of my net worth, which isn't much, but I'm fully committed. The last 20% I'm waiting for better prices, or simply going to DCA. I don't even care if it goes back to 16k. If you understand what the government is doing, you will understand we are at the end game, and any major shock can happen at any time. 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years... its all relatively close.

    There is a great speech by Michael Saylor from Bitcoin Prague I think it was where he talks about how most gains happened over just a few number of days, so if you weren't in, you'd miss out big. The thing with bitcoin is that once it starts pumping, it may be too late. You're gonna go try and buy at an exchange, and they might not let you withdraw cause they won't have it. You might also not be prepared to self custody, and it will take you weeks to learn.

    The beautiful thing about fiat is that its designed to go down at a steady rate, so you do have time. I know you're prudent at taking your stops on your positions, so I know you won't lose it in market crash. And I honestly don't care if you buy it or not, but you keep engaging us on this crypto forum, so you must have a reason for it.
     
    #16     Aug 19, 2023
    johnarb likes this.
  7. You are beating a dead-horse here. He's brought up these flawed assumptions before and called out on it. Yet he's posting the same nonsense yet again.

    Yes, we've posted the 1971 charts showing the effects since the Nixon default on gold. But you can't teach an old dog new tricks I guess.
     
    #17     Aug 19, 2023
    NoahA likes this.
  8. NoahA

    NoahA

    You're absolutely right... I got scammed again! LOL
     
    #18     Aug 19, 2023
    johnarb likes this.
  9. YouHodler

    YouHodler Sponsor

    Hi guys, we've just landed on the forum :D

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    I'm responding to the Quest:

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    #19     Aug 23, 2023
  10. deaddog

    deaddog

    Bitcoin Plunges To $26,000 As Miners Sell Big (newsbtc.com)

    Bitcoin has plunged towards the $26,000 level as on-chain data shows the Bitcoin mines have been participating in a selloff. Bitcoin Miner To Exchange Flow Has Spiked During The Past Day As pointed out by an analyst in a CryptoQuant post, the miners have been showing signs of selling recently.
     
    #20     Sep 3, 2023