"I challenge any biological scientist to find one single biological species that lives forever. One would think that with all this random chance stuff (think monkeys banging out Shakespeare) that at least one species would have evolved to the point where it would no longer die of natural causes." This is silly. Its the building blocks, chemicals, amino acids and base elements that are the constants in time span, whether relativity has anything to do with it or not. By your reckoning, we should also have found evidence of extra terrestrials by now, with all this random chance, but quantum physics is a bit more involved than that im sure. At any rate, statistically, if their were a species that lived forever, the human race would have driven it to extinction a long time ago, and a new one will be a long time coming.
I am 100% in agreement with ZZZZ here. What we have is two religions - Christianiaty and MaterialismÂBÂ@In such a major cultural battle allowing one free reign to indoctrinate and forbidding the other is dangerously unfair.
Roberk, are you serious? Forbidding alternative, much less scientific theories being taught is precisely what religion has been doing for centuries and centuries, and were only dragged kicking and screaming against their will to allow anything but biblical interpretations into schools in the early 20th century.
Hell yes, I am serious. I am NOT asking for Christianity to replace Materialism in science education. In fact I am not a Christian and don't believe in a creator God. But I deplore the triumphalism of scientific materialism, and as it stands the Intelligent Design people are the only ones with the courage, and knowledge to oppose this ideaology. There may be much better alternatives coming but until then I applaud ID scientists like Phillip Johnson , Michael Behe and William Dembski.
One of many times he's talked about the importance of education: Greenspan urges education. "Recent studies show U.S. students are competitive in math and science through the fourth grade, he noted, but after that, the United States falls well behind East Asian countries, in particular, in providing education and technical training. A 2002 survey found that U.S. colleges produced one-sixth the number of graduates with science and engineering degrees that Asian schools do. Companies not only are relocating facilities to Asia to take advantage of the surplus of skilled graduates, but they are enticing Asian graduates to come to the United States to take jobs that they can't find qualified candidates to fill here." Only the dumbass right would want to put religion back into schools when science and technology need to be given more attention.
If it is programming that causes the body to no longer renew itself, regenerate itself with the passage of time, why then has not a random program come along that did allow longer and longer life, going toward eternal life (excluding unnatural causes)? If this theory of evolution of species is about adaptation, what better form of adaptation than eternal renewal of the biological organism? We see every biological has an instinctual reaction to stay alive, yet never, ever has an organism "evolved" to a point where it could randomly spawn a more evolved species that could defeat the birth, living, death cycle. It makes just as much sense or probability in some random lifeless unplanned ignorant chance world for this to happen as it does for a world to be consistently producing life only to have that life programmed to eventual death by natural causes. Nope, the theory of randomness should cut both ways, yet in every single species in every supposed "random evolutionary" move, never have we seen any species that lived terribly beyond its "normal" lifespan for that species. This biological nature of all species is way to regular for such a "random and unplanned" scenario. Something is keeping it from randomly mutating into something of an eternal lifespan. Think of the billions upon billions upon billions upon billions of opportunities for that one fluke genetic unplanned random event in a biological organism that would produce a species that would resist aging. Yet we don't have a single, solitary, nor one iota of evidence that any species did develop that way, or would ever develop that way....but in all reason, it should have happened....unless there were some plan or control against this happening. As far as ET's go, I have no reason to disbelieve or believe in them, so I see no reason to even bring it up. This world and what we don't know about it and about the nature of life is enough of a mystery to try and solve..... This is silly. Its the building blocks, chemicals, amino acids and base elements that are the constants in time span, whether relativity has anything to do with it or not. By your reckoning, we should also have found evidence of extra terrestrials by now, with all this random chance, but quantum physics is a bit more involved than that im sure. At any rate, statistically, if their were a species that lived forever, the human race would have driven it to extinction a long time ago, and a new one will be a long time coming. [/QUOTE]
" But I deplore the triumphalism of scientific materialism, and as it stands the Intelligent Design people are the only ones with the courage, and knowledge to oppose this ideaology." Maybe the triumphalism of scientific materialism needs some description. I was taught "intelligent design" as an alternative theorum BTW, in chemistry class if i recall. Did it need to be there? Maybe, molecular chemistry and particle physics are open ended books. UNLIKE any RELIGIOUS TEXTS.
My comment of "may be by design" is of course theoretical, just as "may be by random chance ignorant lifeless undirected evolutionary processes" is theoretical. I take no issue with scientific observation, facts speak for themselves. It is the guess as to what is really going on that I don't believe is known, nor should this mystery be taught in public schools as something that is "known" by scientists. I gave you a request for the experiment to be run to lead me to a more open mind. You may have assumed that I was not aware of this experiment and its repetition. Did you wonder why I set down my own criteria for the experiment, rather than go with your suggestion? The experiment on its own proves nothing but a certain species adapted in specific manner, and it is unknown that the change would not reverse itself if once again the environment and subgroups were returned to their initial condition and allowed to "regress" back to the normative condition. It is also unknown that these changes would necessarily occur in other species, or if the changes would be permanent. That biological organisms have a certain degree of elasticity in attempt to overcome environmental obstacles to survive is their nature, we see it in every biological organism, this impulse to survive. So observation of change is only this: OBSERVATION OF CHANGE. What is the cause of the change, if the change is a permanent and "new" condition, or a predetermined variable within the planning or range of that organism is unknown. The theory comes in when a scientists attempts to "fit the observations" into a package to satisfy a guess. So it becomes simple: Teach in public schools what we know, what we observe, but do not promote theories that are not known to be factual, and don't make sweeping generalizations as to what one species does as some platform to what other species have done, or may do. Experiments to prove design are not needed. Everyone can see that every single biological organism has a birth, a life of some duration (not exceeding the norm of that species by any great or abnormal amount) and eventual death by normal decay and expiration (if not killed by another organism or environmental stress). This regularity, this certainty of process of creation of live by birth, age of life, and then death has never ever changed, and the proof of that is that we have not one single example to prove this axiomatic truth false. It is a statistical improbability that not a single freak "random biological unplanned event" did not produce at least one instance of life extending at least 5 times the norm for a human being. The programming in the nature of biological organisms to have this cycle of birth, life, then death is so strong as to resist any an all attempts to "evolve or mutate" into every increasing lifespan, even though each and every organism shows an inherent drive to survive, and not die. It is so obvious......it is not by accident. The theory is simple: Biological organisms are designed to be born, live, then die....and we have proof 100% before us that this has never been shown otherwise. A single example....show birds living 20 times normal lifespan, dogs living to be hundreds of years old, amoebas living beyond a normative, trees thousands and thousands of years old....they all eventually are programmed to die. Get it? PROGRAMMED TO DIE..... Where there is any programming so strong, so consistent, so ever present, there is a program behind it....this is not a random thing at all. Design? Again, it is so obvious...and it is coming for each and everyone single biological organism, and this march to death, something that all biological organism fight against instinctively.....is set from birth. All this unbroken programming....and all the uncountable opportunities to "evolve out of it" and nothing but failure to escape the design of biological organism. Facts are facts, theory is not a fact, no matter how much someone want to believe it is a fact. It may become a fact....when the knowledge of the source of the programming of biological organisms is found. So my theory: You are going to die, along with every other biological organism, according to the plan and design of biological organisms. Every single day the data keeps rolling in to support this theory....and not a single piece of evidence to prove the theory of this design false.......... The cylcle of life, by design, is birth, death, birth, death, birth death....unending as long as the environment supports life....
"Where there is any programming so strong, so consistent, so everpresent, there is a program behind it....this is not a random thing at all.' Your posts?