ZTroll: "blather, blah, contradiction ... blather, blah, contradiction ...blather, blah, contradiction ...blather, blah, contradiction ...blather, blah, contradiction ...blather, blah, contradiction ...blather, blah, contradiction ..." Have fun creating your own conflicting definition and versions of fictional characters ... you're as good at is as anyone. Enjoy. JB
Translation of Lord Turok: "I can't handle this so I will go into my denial mode." That would be the just plaid old denial.
Z, Just come out and say it... everyone else besides you is wrong in their perceptions and conceptualization of god. Turok pointed out a valid argument. If you don't believe him, simply go to forums of each respective religion and try to convince them of what you are saying and you'll find out. Mind you, most religions think that their god can do anything. But they all acknowledge that their gods, based on their religious texts, has wants and desires. Like Turok said, if you believe in a conceptualization of god that is without wants, that's cool. But just say so. Do not state it as a universal fact. That's disengenuous. Oh, and wrong.
This works if and only if your conceptualization of God is that it is omnipresent. In that respect, if you say God +1, you void the concept of omnipresence. I think you just needed to add the word "omnipresent."
Z Only you accept your own definition of God. Most people don't. Assume your god is unlimited, he is the superset, and there is nothing outside of him. he should be able to add 1 to himself. You said you cannot add 1 to god. It is a contradiction. So the assumption is wrong. If God is complete, it is meaningless to discuss God. If nature is complete, it is meaningless trying to change the nature. Every activity in this world is meaningless. That means nature is meaningless. You are engaging a meaningless discussion.
"Only you accept your own definition of God. Most people don't." Only I accept, but "most" people don't? Only I and most? That suggests that some do accept my definition, which would mean the statement that "only you accept" is false. Funny. Try "Only you accept your own definition of God. No other person does." __________________________________ The +1 that God would "add" to Himself would be taking something from Himself and "adding" it to Himself, but that doesn't change the totality of God, doesn't make God greater. It is not really addition which results in a sum greater or lessor than the initial totality. The absurd idea of stu was that God +1=Gilbert assumes that God can be added to, which is impossible by definition. God by definition is the greatest. Nothing greater, no means to be greater. Nothing to add, nothing to subtract, complete totality without any boundary. Nothing outside to add to God, nothing outside to move something from God to the outside. In a skin graft for burn victims, doctors sometimes take the patient's own skin from one part of their body and graft it to another area. Are they "adding" skin to the patient? Not really, they are just moving it from one place to another. With God, since everything is contained within God, adding 1 would be nothing but moving +1 from where it was (within God) to where it already is (within God). So the word "add" the way it was used by stu suggests that an increase can come from adding +1 to God, and I am saying it is impossible to increase God by definition. Just as moving skin from one part of the body, subtracting the skin from one place and adding (moving) it to another place on the body doesn't increase the amount of skin. This is why there is no contradiction in saying that you cannot add +1 to God (meaning you cannot increase God's value), and the idea of increasing God's value is illogical, because it is not a possibility. The suggestion that an all powerful God should be able to reduce His own power is again illogical, and if He can't then he is not all powerful is just an absurdity. There is no possibility to increase or reduce the power of God. God can "add" +1 to Himself, but it doesn't increase His value because he is simply producing +1 from Himself and moving it from Himself to Himself. God cannot increase or decrease His value, that is logically impossible by definition. Moving parts around is not addition or subtraction of value. If I have a box of numbers, and I take a number from one corner and move it to another corner of the box, have I increased the total numbers or increased the value of the numbers of the sum of the numbers? Nope. I subtract it from the right corner of the box box, and add it back to the left corner of the box, and the value is unchanged....so this "addition" and "subtraction" don't have the same meaning as taking a number away from the box or bringing another number into the box. _______________________ Life and nature have meaning.