Intelligent Design is not creationism

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Teleologist, Nov 4, 2006.

  1. Smilingsynic said:
    I have a different perspective. We know that intelligence can intervene in evolution. Even beings as modestly intelligent as we can shape and alter evolution through artificial selection (where selection is guided) and genetic engineering (where mutations are planned). For example, any scientific explanation that attempted to account for the existence of domestic animals, and different breeds of dogs, would be incomplete without reference to intelligent intervention. Better yet, the shear number of different bacteria that exist with resistance to the huge number of different antibiotics cannot validly be explained without reference to intelligent intervention.

    Dolly the sheep is related by common descent to her sheep parents. But she also exists because of ID. ID is also behind the origin of flies that express GFP and mice that mimic various human genetic diseases. The question is whether analogous intelligent intervention (albeit, of an advanced level), is behind any origin events from ancient times.

    Where is the solid evidence that all major evolutionary innovations in the past are due to random mutation and coincidental selection rather than planned mutations and guided selection? It appears that the belief in random mutation and coincidental selection is simply a function of metaphysics and game rules. And that doesn't help someone who is seriously open to a teleological explanation.
     
    #3811     Apr 29, 2008
  2. stu

    stu

    Just in case you hadn't noticed , a search on "natural selection culls" , revealing at the top of the list....

    www.barking-moonbat.com
    and Dembski's www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/[/url]

    ... do not count as the scientific community and therefore hardly supports you point.
    Back it up yourself Tele. Try arguing from a standpoint of the bleedin obvious for once. It won't help your agenda but it may just make you feel a little happier.
     
    #3812     Apr 30, 2008
  3. stu

    stu

    Can this still be your proposition

    Because an intelligence can intervene in nature , therefore, nothing would naturally occur by itself, without intelligent intervention.

    Your proposition does nothing to address the teleological question it poses. In fact worse yet, teleology itself does nothing at all but beg the question teleology tries to pretend it wants to answer.

    Teleologically speaking, Intelligent Design needs Intelligent Design because everything must have a first cause, including a first cause, including Intelligent Design.

    Does it really never strike you how dysfunctional the teleological proposition is .
     
    #3813     Apr 30, 2008
  4. Nature needs a first cause, eh?

    LOL!

     
    #3814     Apr 30, 2008
  5. I like the idea of guided selection, that i proposed in my dissertation long time ago.
    It is possible that the random behavior found in nature is designed but there is no scientific proof of the design yet.
     
    #3815     Apr 30, 2008
  6. Apart from shaking hands with the Designer of the Universe, finding the "plans" for the Universe that predate the Universe (LMAO) what exactly would constitute scientific proof of design?

    Remember, if you require meeting the Designer, then you are essentially saying that all evidence must be from direct observation, which would render much of our science of today "non science."



     
    #3816     Apr 30, 2008
  7. stu

    stu

    So why would't the random behavior found in nature not be the design of random behavior. ?
     
    #3817     Apr 30, 2008
  8. It is possible but there is no scientific proof.
     
    #3818     Apr 30, 2008
  9. I didn't mean one needs to have "scientific" proof for your belief. But it is a fact that we can't find any "scientific" proof using well accepted scientific methods.
     
    #3819     Apr 30, 2008
  10. [edit] It is my own belief that we can't use any scientific methods to prove/disprove ID.
     
    #3820     Apr 30, 2008