"It does mean that there is no scientific method of assigning a probability to God's existence, and that no matter how improbable our self replicating molecule may be, it is infinitely more probable than the alternative of God." I can at least admire the agnostics for their intellectual honesty, but saying "we can't calculate the probability of X, so by default it must be Y no matter how unlikely it is" is just plain ignorance being adopted by default as some kind of truth because there is no way to falsify it. Better to simply say, we can't figure it out...we don't know, so we aren't going to guess... That is unless people are worshiping at the alter of Science and the the scientists are leading the mass...
I'm with Zzzz on this one.. If you can't assign a probability to event "A" how can you assert that in comparison the probability of event "B" is infiniely greater
I generally agree, but not completely in this case ... The IDers are telling us that our life forms are too complex to have "just happened" and for this reason a far more powerful force (ID) *had to be* at work. Well, IF complexity is the issue, the probability of a more complex creature (ID) is obviously different than a less complex one. JB
How do you prove that it is more probable than the alternative of God? Lt 1/x -> 0 and Lt 1/y -> 0 There is no way to compare 1/x and 1/y until you know the relationship between x and y. Do you know a function regarding the probability of existence of God? No! It is impossible for us to understand infinity (at the current time). We understand mathematically the concept of approaching infinity but not infinity. I have never seen any scientific method of comparing infinity. We can compare 1/x and 1/(2x) with x -> infinity because the two objects being compared has a well-known relationship.
The thing is, the ID creature is not your friend, not interested in your learning anything about it's methods, finding it out, or releasing yourself from the 'Hotel California' it made for you. The body serves this purpose well. The ID creature makes it, permitting into your awareness, almost exclusively, only those things which testify to the reality of it's cherished illusion. Yet the body is just another part of the illusion, and to ask it to explain the illuison to you is no different than asking the illusion to explain itself. If you ask the illusion, it will be more than happy to furnish you with answers. But they will all be self-serving. The result is an unquestioning, "We are here", or, "Welcome to reality" type attitude. These are repeated like mantras. Little do you know the ID creature has you by the balls, exactly where it wants you. Jesus
you score a minor point here, yippee, but b/w stu and kj your so far behind take one of those miracles to catch up, got any miracles left in that code?
Re "No more fanciful..." : Agreed - no more fanciful, especially given that degrees of fancifulness are pretty difficult to deal with. Re " obviously an omnipotent designer...": Agreed again, but there could be a Creator God that isn't omnipotent and that had to work within limitations. I believe you've made this point yourself at least once. I think the terms 'omnipotence' and 'perfection' are nonsensical when applied by us to a deity. Re " And previous to our arrival.. ": Again, agreed, except that we are the fact and these other life forms are mere possibilities of indeterminable probability. As the known living fact we enjoy a privileged position in considerations of the meaning of the Universe; for instance, it is possible that the geocentric POV is not based on madness or ignorance but on reasonable consideration as a possibility given the lack of evidence to the contrary. I suggest that pending evidence to the contrary we should conduct ourselves as though we do occupy a privileged position in the scheme of things and that we should take ourselves more seriously than reductionists and cynics suggest we should. This doesn't mean we should adopt an attitude of certainty or arrogance - just that we should assume that we may have an assigned responsibility as stewards of this miracle planet and that we may be, as Heidegger suggested, "the keepers of being". Am I preaching to the converted here?
Jesus H your insane LOL privileged position in the scheme of things ? we occupy a privileged position on this planet, maybe. any other assertion is arrogance "pending evidence to the contrary" we should consider ourselves damn lucky monkeys
The IDcreature is hiding something from you. Oh, you have a privileged position alright, walking upon a thin crust of molten rock. Hmmm...what's underneath the surface? Shall we peek? You may want to put your armour up for this one. The Sounds of Hell These sounds symbolize the feelings that predate time and space. These are the ancient feelings that make the world seem like a "good idea". These feelings are still there, only they are buried under deep layers of the mind we sometimes call the 'unconscious'. These feelings allow the IDcreature to take advantage of the situation, and sell you the idea of a 'Hotel California' type paradise. The world is a 'solution' to the problem of these feelings. It is a 'buffer' against the heat of these feelings. Notice however, that the feelings these sounds symbolize, are all being felt on the surface of the planet. They are just not felt all at once, by everyone, all the time. Rather, the planet serves as a time release, spreading these feelings out in between "good times". Bodies are actually buffers against deep feelings of guilt. And yet, they do not avoid self-sabatoge from deep levels of the mind. Concepts that demand punishment mete themselves out every which way. And that is all that is really happening on the surface. The mind that makes this world is truly suffering and in great pain. 'Truly' is a relative term here. It believes in pain. The behavior on the surface is largely motivated by the feelings deep in the subconscious. The shifting of blame around is the most obvious manifestation of it. The fear of God is also obvious, and the ominous feeling that God might attack. Listen now, to the feelings that give rise to this world, what the world is masking, and what runs the world this very day. Understand why I so often call this world "hell". Jesus