In a truly natural world that is believed to be fully a product of random ignorant chance, nothing at all is remarkable except the human mind's recognition or lack of recognition that design and programming is actually at work...
Hostile? Losing control? You had 3 chances to make your case but all you did is blow hot air. LOL. How did it go again? Need to know Vedic scripture in original sanskrit to understand your bullshit? Did you really think that kind of nonsense would fly? You're a troll. [ingore]ZZZZZzzzzz[/ignore]
@Jem. Looks like the pro-ID sites that you got those from are pandering to their core constituency who are accustomed to "interpreting" written word to suit their agenda. Know what I mean?
Yes, the tiny mad idea of separation. How can it be otherwise? Compelling? Perhaps. Beautiful? Look around! That is in the eye of the beholder. Jesus
Pro id site? who cares - is that some sort of cheap rhetorical trick. -- address the facts. Hawking then goes on to say that he can appreciate taking this as possible evidence of "a divine purpose in Creation and the choice of the laws of science (by God)" (ibid. p. 125). That is a quote from his book. Hawking and other top minds say there is evidence of design. Deal with the science not the web site.
No... you deal with the science because the website you got this from added an interpretation *(by God)* of what Hawkings meant by that. Intellectual dishonesty. See pantheism. Post the entire section surrounding Hawking's quote. Let's see the context. Can you do that? Post the entire page. If you can't do that then all you're doing is parroting ID propaganda. That's why it matters where you got this from.
ID Propaganda it's modern day terminology for an answer, an answer that has been suggested in the past by people of none and all denominations, to an age-old riddle. If "Intelligent Design" is what Christians call it today, that by no way grants them exclusive rights to the answer to that age-old riddle ... ID Propaganda Are Newton's classical mechanics also Propaganda? He happened to be a devout Christian, whose greatest accomplishments where driven by the essence of "Intelligent Design", if not by it in name. Use some common-sense, most every philosophy of every culture through-out human history has included elements of "Intelligent Design" at its core
Absolutely. Yep. But so what? Has no relevance to the subject at hand. ID propaganda, which is a contemporary thing given the context of the discussion, twists meanings and quotes out of context statements of physists and other scientists in order to bolster their non-scientific ideology. Certain quotes of Einstein, Sussking, Hawkins and others are favorites of IDer's to play around with. But taken as a whole, these quotes they use would either serve to discredit the scientists because they make the scientists appear to be in a state of hypocrisy or make the IDer's look like fools because we know for a fact that these scientists are atheist and therefore do not recognize design. And if they somehow make it seem as if they do, they recognize it as nothing more than the order of a natural unguided process. Either way, the IDer is better off not using them because many times IDer's use these quotes as a "see? they see design too" when arguing with non-Iders while having nothing credible to offer other than appeal to the non-Ider's authority. What makes this thread stupid is this... Anyone can say that the universe looks designed on some level. It's purely subjective. But do you think that will satisfy an IDer? Nope. They already have in mind who the designer is. And if you come to a tentative conclusion that differs from theirs (Like Zzzzz metaphysical nonesense) ultimately they won't be happy. They're not as ecumenical as they try to make themselves out to be. The whole point behind ID isn't to simply determine that things look designed (or find empirical evidence of design), but to acknowledge a designer... AKA a God. And for the grand majority of IDer's, that God is Jehovah. Plain and simple. They're using it to prove the existence of the one behind Gucci/Fendi/DKNY. I mean God the designer. Pardon me.
Here's a little challenge for Iders to put the usefulness of ID in perspective: SHOW a few USEFUL and TESTABLE predictions using ID theory that CANNOT be made by NON-ID sciences such as Physics, biology, evolutionary biology, chemistry, etc. Then perhaps we will all see the point of ID better.