Yes, I quite agree that you are daft. Daft, Daft, Daft I say! Anyone who thinks what was not known to be "natural" a thousand years ago due to the understanding of natural laws at that time, would have been a complete dope to say that what we now know as natural was once unnatural, because the limited human mind once thought of such things as supernatural, or supranatural, etc. "If man were meant to fly, he would have been given wings" comes to my mind when I think of your narrow single dimensional channel of thought. Of course the small minded (hint: insert stu's mind here) think that what is beyond current science is necessarily unnatural, and that nature by design and intelligence would be something unnatural. Nothing could be more natural... Your kind would have easily burned people at the stake for speaking what was once considered "unnatural" by the science or authority of the day....
You got confused and pissed yourself again. According to Teleologist you are wrong . Things by intelligent design are artifacts. and do not originally occur naturally by themselves without the ID additional agent , so you should take that up with him If you can't understand what natural would mean without wetting yourself, perhaps remaining content to be a not too intelligently designed gaumless troll, is your best course of action . ... such things like Creators, God and Intelligent Designers. How limited the human mind once thought...
You got confused and pissed yourself again. You repeatedly sound like an expert in the area of uncontrollable urine disbursement with full regularity, have you discovered adult diapers? Or do you just let it dry to a crusty mildew similar to the demented thoughts that are the mold of your baseless diatribes. According to Teleologist you are wrong . Things by intelligent design are artifacts. and do not originally occur naturally by themselves without the ID additional agent , so you should take that up with him Now you are making some absurd argument based on an appeal to the authority of Teologist that I should take up with him? Too freakin much...you are delusional. If you can't understand what natural would mean without wetting yourself, perhaps remaining content to be a not too intelligently designed gaumless troll, is your best course of action .... such things like Creators, God and Intelligent Designers. How limited the human mind once thought... That you are likely needing to be wearing an adult diaper as you hammer out the piss & vinegar is perfectly natural for someone in your mental condition...it is common for the mentally challenged like yourself to have control related flow issues...again, fully natural for someone in your impaired mental state. So droll, so stupid you are stu, but magnificently consistent in both areas... Anytime you want to make something that resembles a logical argument... A change of underwear would not even be required for you to do so, unless your thinking really does flow from your bladder...which oft appears to be the case, but uncontrollable mental incontinence and flatulence seem perfectly natural emanating from you, as if by design...
It obviously is a question of ID'ists merely marvelling at the design of life.Another ID pseudo argument. This time based upon incredulity. A better understanding of these so called designs. might start with a realization that the 'design' repeatedly falls over time after time, duplicating mistakes, leading to destruction pain misery and death. And the ID/creationist would consider that to be superior. Why? Because the design kills you? Because the design prevents creation - prevents life in the first place?.Not superior are the human 'designs' which are contrastingly brought about artificially to counteract. overcome and cure those failing 'ones he is 'marvelling at. In marveling at dysfunctional designs he is merely being perverse. But that is the way of ID. It has no clarity and no verifiable explanations ID/ creationism cares nothing for accuracy and relies completely on creating its own dishonest controversy. Trying to perversely argue its way into science with misinformation distortion ignorance or unanswered mystery. will suffice to confuse an issue into .disputation, which is the creationists first aim. It is all they have. To spread an infection of creator designer God outside personal belief via any means possible no matter how disreputable. ID despises the idea of things being natural. Elements occurring reacting ,altering completely naturally over eons without a need for anything except existence itself to form into what they are, That those particular shapes and functions which ID calls design, could come about that way is unthinkable for a creationist. God can do that of course, but the very things recognized tested observed measured verified and confirmed as doing so through the process of evolution cannot. So their God could be right under their nose as evolution itself, but it's reason alone for the ID'er never to acknowledge It. The "Creator" is real only when it is not. And for that, they would be content to ridicule and destroy all known understanding if necessary. When you do actually look, things don't "look like" they are intelligently designed. The whole notion of design is fundementally the ability to recognize pattern. For patterns to be intelligently designed means they require a creator They would be created. That is creationism. The title of the thread is incorrect. ID is de facto, creationism.
Yes. It's hard to marvel at the design as you've described it in the second paragraph above. It is wise to question the validity of such a design. So it's nothing to marvel at, and certainly not sacred or holy. For that reason, it is defacto - not - creationism. Instead, there is confusion about what creation is. While this is not creation, it is very tempting to say it has a maker...because complex patterns have emerged out of chaos. True creation does not emerge out of chaos. It does not take time. It is unchangeable forever. It is always joyful. Whatever this is, it emerges out of chaos, takes time, changes, and is sad because everything fails and dies. Yet its hard to dismiss the body as a pattern that could have emerged out of chaos. Where then does it come from? It's time for you to embrace a paradigm shift so that you can rise above this paradox. Meanwhile, you are in the same boat as the ID/Creationists. They point to a poor designer and say, "This is our God. We are made of him". You point to chaos - "nature" - and say, "This has always been and will be forever...and I am born of it". Neither are true. Only when you want to know the truth will you be able to consider the kind of thoughts that lead you to reverse engineer the patterns emerging out of chaos. Truth answers questions like "why?" You may not appreciate the answer. Unwilling to appreciate, you are unwilling to reverse engineer, and so unable to understand anything. There is a reason for what you see. It is not a valid reason, but to you it is. You have more power than you know. You seem to have lost that power as you have used it to make such chaotic designs. Only an understanding of the design...and a denial of the design...will restore power to your awareness. A design is not a creation. Deny that it is, and you begin to restore power. What you call "nature" is a failing design. Why accept it? It remains as long as you accept such poor design...leaving you powerless to extend your short existence more than a few years, if that. Existence does not equal "life". This is a grand deception. It is pseudo life...fake creation. The secret of salvation is that you do all this to yourselves. The "universe" is something you've done to yourself. It is how you tried to hurt yourself. It is self-punishment without any valid reason. But you still believe in the reason, or you would not still be punishing yourself with such poor designs. Jesus
For all to see, stupid at work... Consciously trying to act like a fool (Though at this point I have reached the conclusion that it is not an act, but a case of sincere foolishness). It's a step, in a consistently stupid and wrong direction...
This time based upon incredulity. A better understanding of these so called designs. might start with a realization that the 'design' repeatedly falls over time after time, duplicating mistakes, leading to destruction pain misery and death. Okay boys and girls, put on your thinking caps and see if you can see why this statement is flawed, and does nothing to counter the concept of Design. Need some more time? Okay, so you can't figure it out. Design means design, nothing more. All the flaws that stupid thinks he sees, all the so called repeatedly falls over time after time, duplicating mistakes, leading to pain misery and death...are are logically possibly by design. Let me repeat, all the problems that we see, that we conclude that the world is not perfect, and therefore could not be by design is a false conclusion. I think what is really going on with the anti ID crowd is that they are so deeply disappointed because they thought a Creator should produce a world that is perfect, where bad things never happen, where painful change never happens, where there is no death, no suffering, no injustice...so in essence they want to blame a Designer of life for the life. The atheists all have a concept of God, and are either pissed off and disappointed that God is not what they wanted God to be, because they failed to find him, and they are stuck in the endless cycle of birth and death, or they think they could do better if they had the power of one who could create the endless Universe. It is little more than a case of sour grapes and childish thinking, as illustrated by the illogical conclusion. The conclusion they reach to explain why there could be no designer is because of they pain they see and feel in life, and have no idea why a good Designer would do such a thing. I have seen similar things, when a child sits crying because their mother would not give them the toy they wanted... It is deeply absurd, and actually a logical disturbance of the mind that someone who doesn't have the ability to design a universe should sit and whine about the design of life, but that is what children do, and apparently some so called adults as well... How much human suffering is from natural causes, and how much is from man's own doings....yet the focus never actually goes to how little man has evolved internally. The seven deadly sins are still alive an well...and yet the immature and illogical blame is still put on God/Nature...
Dysteleology arguments assume what they are trying to disprove. Nobody would make these kinds of "poor design" arguments about a mud puddle since it doesn't seem designed in the first place. Something has to have been made for a purpose before it makes any sense to look at it and declare that it coulda/shoulda been done better. It opens up the question to the theist about why God doesn't ensure that everything in the world meets some standard of perfection but it's a contradictory argument against teleology. Also, since it's explicitly a philosophical argument against theism, it's inconsistent for someone to use it, while at the same time insisting that the evidence can say nothing about the supernatural, and that they aren't arguing for philosophical naturalism.