Actually it's turtles all the way down. This is an excerpt from Hawking's "Brief History of Time," A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!" ID is right up there with the turtle theory.
From his pulpit, from the mouth of babes and sucklings, stuey gives his opinion on ID... <img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1369325> We are all so blessed to have stuey tell us what to think and believe... Out of the mouth of babes and suckings...
Stu: Methodological naturalism is considered to be the cornerstone of modern science but MN itself is not science it is a philosophical principle. So should teachers be forbidden from discussing MN in science class?
Yes, they should. Without proper context of discussion (ie, philosophy class where different philosophical views are compared), students will likely be confused. What should be taught in science class, is not any of the philosophy flavors. Students should be taught the scientific method, ie, a body of techniques for investigating phenomena and acquiring new knowledge, as well as for correcting and integrating previous knowledge, based on gathering observable, empirical, measurable evidence, subject to the principles of reasoning. ID proponents' mistake, is pushing ID into the science class, where it doesn't belong.
We don't want students confused, but we don't teach them the philosophy of science, explain alternative theories, show the gaping holes in theories, etc. Nope, clearly people don't want children "confused." More dogmatic thinking, fearful that students might get confused enough to actually begin to question and think for themselves... Oh, and a curriculum of teaching arguments from ignorance is not really creating a foundation of "principles of reasoning." Teaching science without teaching the philosophy of science is nothing but indoctrination.
Every time I thought you had reached the peak of stupidity, you topped that with the next post. This one is as idiotic as it gets (unless you top it again with your next post). Using your logic, you cannot teach Newton's law of gravity without teaching calculus, or teach DNA without teaching molecular biology, or teach chemistry without teaching quantum mechanics. Otherwise it's indoctrination. You might as well remove science from schools altogether. Perhaps that's your real goal.
Teleologist asked: James Bond 3rd replied: Well, scientists and science teachers consider MN to be the basis for the scientific method. How does that get left out of science class? It doesn't. Teachers are free to discuss MN in science class. And I might add that teachers are also free to discuss SETI. You won't see the ACLU filing any lawsuits over this. Thus, what we have here is a double standard.
If all you can do is refer to my "stupidity" and make absurd statements claiming I want science removed from the classroom, I see no point in response. The game you are playing with such comments, you can go ahead and win. Not interested in that game.
Another false strawman for the crybabies. MN as a concept didn't even exist prior to 1986. I seriously doubt any high school science teacher is teaching it today. As for SETI, itself is not science but it has been used as an example (a strawman if you like) for students to practice scientific thinking. I already pointed out in an earlier post but repeat it here. SETI was never used as an alternative to an existing scientific theory. If it had such a function then it should be booted out of science classroom just like ID. Stop whining.