Index futures automation

Discussion in 'Journals' started by hilmy83, Jul 3, 2022.

Can a fully automated trading strategy work in the long run?

  1. YES!

    56 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. Hell naw.

    15 vote(s)
    17.9%
  3. I don't know, I got my own trading to worry about.

    13 vote(s)
    15.5%
  1. ironchef

    ironchef

    Your cum profit curve is very unusual with lots of vertical jumps. Is it because of the way you accounted for profits/losses?

    Mine had bigger drawdown than 25% on occasions mainly because my strategy is mostly leveraged long but the cum profit curve did not have vertical jumps even during 2020 and 2022.
     
    #871     Mar 29, 2024
  2. hilmy83

    hilmy83

    I documented some errors in the code during the early days where the bot left profitable trades opened. But if the bot did perform as expected, it would've been similar performance.

    20-30% dd is normal from backtests, but I'm not sure if I can sit through it. My purpose for trading is to generate income, if i wanted to sit through stagnation, might as well just invest long term. Save money on taxes and less headache.


    Live
    upload_2024-3-29_13-15-44.png



    vs Backtest
    upload_2024-3-29_13-15-9.png
     
    #872     Mar 29, 2024
    SimpleMeLike likes this.
  3. ironchef

    ironchef

    I get it but my question is if you own any financial instruments, the market values don't all of a sudden go down, or jump 20%, unless it is an accounting artifact?
     
    #873     Mar 29, 2024
  4. NoahA

    NoahA

    I'm guessing that its simply one averaged-in trade that is closed at a loss. From what I gather about his algo, he takes trades on breakouts, or fades them, and then there is a process for taking the opposite side of the trade, or averaging into a trade. I think we all know that many times, if we average in, we eventually can get out for a tiny profit. But everyone now and then, the dip we keep buying just keeps on dipping... LOL
     
    #874     Mar 29, 2024
    ironchef likes this.
  5. schizo

    schizo

    We would all be rich if we knew that in advance. But it's worth considering the market will likely be rangebound until there's a catalyst that comes around to mess up the status quo. Also trending and range markets are binary (range=0, trend=1). So if price is DOWN in a range, it's UP in a trending market. Not an easy feat to program, but feasible with right calibration IMO.
     
    #875     Mar 29, 2024
    NoahA likes this.
  6. NoahA

    NoahA

    I'm guessing that in hilmy's case, trading on a small time frame, there are lots of ranges but also lots of trends. If the NQ is stuck in a 200 point ranger, on a fast chart, that will still lead to a nice rally or consistent drop that will kill you if you're not in the right direction and scaling in.
     
    #876     Mar 29, 2024
    schizo likes this.
  7. schizo

    schizo

    That is why you need to combine more than just 1 TF (especially if @hilmy flips back and forth like I do). But I'm getting ahead myself.

    Let me just say in passing that short term players are usually concentrated in the lower TF whereas the longer term players on the higher TF. And they usually go the opposite direction. The "sweet spot", however, is when both parties are in cahoots with one another.
     
    #877     Mar 29, 2024
    NoahA likes this.
  8. NoahA

    NoahA

    His algo would be 10 times more complicated I'm sure if it had to reference other time frames.
     
    #878     Mar 29, 2024
  9. ironchef

    ironchef

    Thanks.

    I know he doesn't like a 25% drawdown but I am very impressed with his overall results.
     
    #879     Mar 29, 2024
    NoahA likes this.
  10. hilmy83

    hilmy83

    Back in the day, what I would used to do was fade the NQs (average in) until it broke the ranges, and just flipped the whole position for the breakout. It was consistent and scary at the same time. But it crapped out when the flip doesn't work and it just mean revert again.

    This time, I am thinking to basically play the ORB/reverse until failure to a certain point then averaging in.

    Studying my losses in the backtests/live, I notice that when price breakout out nicely from OR, it does it in 1-2 setups. When price zig zags around OR, there's likelihood it would just range going forward until end of session.

    So I'm going back to the drawing board to reprogram the bot to do that. Run some tests and let it run live.
     
    #880     Mar 29, 2024
    SimpleMeLike, ironchef and NoahA like this.