You know this every single night until you go to sleep. And then you know nothing, because you are dead. The only reason you know anything at all is because you wake up the next morning and can remember that you went to sleep the previous night. The in-between the "woke" state? That is the reality of the universe, and that is the ultimate reality of nothingness, which is what we all experience most of the "time". Has nobody on this forum ever laid in bed in the morning and wondered why they did not remember falling asleep, but can possibly be thinking about it at that moment? And has nobody here thought of how funky the afterlife may be, and reincarnation might be? Well, what about BEFORE YOU WERE BORN? Why can you not remember that? It is because of the same reason you will not remember that night of falling asleep, when you die in your sleep (or wherever). Because there will be no more YOU to remember it! This is all the YOU there is. The point of power is in the present, and there is no other existence. Without your memory, you will cease to exist. And guess what, ladies and gentlemen...When you fall asleep, or die, you will not have memory, because there is no more YOU to have memories from/with/of. Reincarnation? Brilliant idea! But since it is not YOU, then you will not know if it is the old YOU! That is why you cannot remember any previous life you may have had, because it was not YOU! There is only one YOU! If you get shot in the head right this moment, you'll cease to exist at this present moment. That might have happened to the YOU in a previous life. So why do you not remember it? Because that was not your current YOU! If you knew it was the current YOU that came back in another form, then we all would not freak out and have all this bullshit religion, trying to reach for a higher power to deal with the unfathomability of existence. Face it, peeps. The inevitability is non-existence. Don't fear it, because when it comes, you will not know about it, because there will be no more YOU. Like what happens every single time you fall asleep.
%% I see your points,T morton; but my opinion doesnt matter much in comparison with the Lord of Angel Armies/creator of the universe.....................................................................................................................
So that's a long way of saying we won't know. Unproven like all the theories on this subject, but no less possible.
Unfortunately, I believe in this very thing. And that's the issue I have. The sadness that comes from a wasted life of input and wisdom that was worth nothing in the end. Because we can't take it with us and the struggle for such wisdom was pointless. I wish I knew how to get past this.
[QUOTE="CaptainObvious, post: 5253425, member: 53164" One day we'll all know the truth...or not.[/QUOTE] %% TRUE; but i seldom if ever wait until the last minute/too many clocks not that accurate . Faith is the title deed .Hebrews 11;1 /Holy Bible.......................................
Life is not a struggle for wisdom. Therefore there are no losers who fail, there is no failure. You live until you die. The aim is to live one more day. And we try to make it happy and constructive, at least for ourselves, sometimes for others too. What is pointless or wasted about this?
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence for multiple life-death-life-death cycles, what's known as reincarnation. The most interesting, and strongest cases, come from children who know things that they could not possibly have known otherwise. These stories are everywhere. Here is one YouTube of a child who could tell you anything you wanted to know about the F4U Corsair, a famed fighter plane going back to the WW2 era. His parents eventually figured out he had been shot down in the South Pacific (Iwo Jima) piloting a Corsair during the war. The amount of detail that emerges is impressive, and pushes the evidence to the brink of what is considered anecdotal. It began to emerge when the child was having nightmares that turned out to be flashbacks of his downing. There are other types of sources, for example, an adult who dies in the emergency room and comes back with some interesting perspectives, only to write a book about it. One such book would be "Embraced by the Light" by Betty Eadie. Betty adds to our knowledge-base, so-to-speak, the idea that we actually choose our parents, and are operating under an agreement. Silvia Brown is a well noted author who also has a lot to say on the subject. The Monroe Institute had a program that helped people reduce the fear of death by frequent visits beyond deaths door. They would gain personal experience of the beyond through "out of body" experience. There is too much evidence now for religious gas-lighting to continue, i mean the emotional abuse that serves the interests of a certain type of religion based on fear: the 'die once and face the big judgement throne' type of religions. Anyone not apprised of the situation is really not seeking (any kind of wisdom). Reincarnation explains why so many children emerge as protégé of one craft or another, if it's true that learning is accumulated from one cycle to another. This is confirmed by my own sources. Accumulated learning explains how salvation can be universal, so-to-speak. Google "Universal Salvation" to see just how popular was the idea in early Christianity, most notably by the prolific writer Origen, who was for a long time, considered "orthodox", reflecting the most standard beliefs of the time. Universal Salvation conflicts with the idea of a permanent punishment in some "hell fire" and "brimstone" of a latter day gaslighting religioso. So, Origen was made a heretic post mortem, as 'orthodoxy' evolved, as the modern version of "hell" was more or less mandated in the 500's AD by an emperor who could see its usefulness in controlling the crowd. Anyone still promoting it is participating in same priest craft which i have long defined as the control of the largest crowd with the smallest police force. As such, priest craft is more efficient than state craft, which is similar. Both are versions of switch craft. But i digress. Reincarnation is necessary if learning is the key to salvation. "You must be born again" is something an exasperated master might say to a very slow learner. Learning, at it's core, is a change of mind. The changing of mind is core to the concept of repentance. This is to say that once a participant, no mind (nor body) escapes from the phenomenon of reincarnation without a complete re-assessment of motives. The most important thing to learn is who or what is the Self (with a capital S). Mastery of a craft, such as the playing of piano, is not the most important thing to learn. But it's nice to know these skills remain useful, far down the road, if income is useful toward setting aside time to contemplate more important concepts, such as the Self. Legend suggests Jesus emerged as a protégé regarding the true Self. Accumulative learning explains why, at age 9, he could debate with the priests in the temple, as well promulgate an ideology quite in conflict with the Jewish lore that would have surrounded him from birth. The idea that his father was not Joseph, but rather the Most High, so-to-speak, is really anathema to anything any child is taught, then and now. If this is true, then any effort expended toward knowing thy Self is generally not wasted time. Arguably, all other time is wasted. One could waste a thousand life-death cycles easily (according to my sources). Silvia Brown (not my best source) is known to suggest she is on her 50th cycle, but who intends that this be her last cycle. Indeed, success is all about ending the round-a-bout of wasted time. My own efforts here are motivated by maintaining incremental increases in awareness of the "thy Self", with special interest in putting the brakes on any more cycles. I write, a little bit for the readers, but a lot of bit for my Self. Unlike too many popular religioso, i am not motivated to make converts, although it is indeed fun and challenging to see if one mind can have influence over another. The motive to make converts is where a lot of this gaslighting is coming from...the use of emotional abuse to hasten the changing of your targets mind. The motive to make converts is also driven by the ideology of the apostate Paul, who had somehow figured that he could score points relative to the size of the "harvest" he could gather together for "the Lord". For that motivation he was willing to endure many lashes and finally beheading. I consider this a fitting punishment for such a disgusting motivation, the idea that i might find a higher place (a bigger "crown") in a post-life hierarchy based on conversion performance ratios. The willingness to maintain cognitive dissonance (gaslight) to make converts, is most closely associated with those religioso who promote hierarchy in the hereafter. The concept of hierarchy, one will eventually learn (perhaps over a thousand cycles) is disgusting to that which is all about equality, namely thy true Self. I must say that sadness about an approaching death, or the prospect of an additional birth, has been much reduced since adopting my current approach. I'm quite confident about holding onto the gains i've made, but am somewhat bothered by an unknown amount of time and experiences (perhaps some bad experiences) it may take before fully recovering current status. It helps, though, to have one single purpose in prolonging each incarnation, especially the current iteration: buy enough time to finish the learning process, before the next rapid radical change (death/birth). What helps sadness the most, i think i can say this with experience, is the incremental dissociation with the thing that is being reincarnated. Dissociating with the "man" while associating with the "Self" greatly reduces the "sting of death", so-to-speak. It helps that no matter what changes are upcoming, no matter how rapid, or how radical, or how painful, it helps to feel confident about emerging as thy Self, which does not change, being eternal. It's important to keep in mind that reincarnation is a function/consequence of change. When change is gradual and comfortable we call it "life". When it is rapid and radical (uncomfortably fast and comprehensive) we call it "death". Thus, the end of death is the end of change. To bring change to an end, we must make a decision against it. To decide against it, we must have before us both alternatives: Life without change ("eternal life"), compared to "life" with constant change (alternating life/death scenarios). Only those who are "weary" of change will be ready to "hear" any discussion about "eternal life", so-to-speak. This is why the very first thing Jesus said to anybody, was, "come to me you who are weary". He did not say, come to me all ye piano virtuosos, and political illuminati. To bring a change to an end, it might be helpful to understand how change even begins. This is an aspect of "learning" that might take several life/death cycles even after one starts to become weary of the drama. One is empowered to make the critical "choice" once the mind more fully understands the original condition (eternal constancy) and why a choice was made to initiate the concept of change, abandoning the original eternal constancy. Change begins with a kind of "choice". Change ends by re-assessing the initial "choice", and choosing better. The better choice, after millions of years of time and change, is to have never considered, let alone desired, that there might be anything better, or more than, the original condition. This is where weariness can come in handy. The fact that weariness is a positive sign of advancement back to the original condition (including maximum happiness) should remove some of the sadness associated with being sick and tired of the status quo (the perpetual change). To really understand the alternatives, it's important to accept the fact that the true Self is the original state. This is very different from those who believe in the concept of learning as growing. Well, anyone who is experiencing reincarnation does believe that learning is growing. It's important to keep in mind that the original state of thy Self does not involve learning. Learning is alien to a mind that is already omniscient. Learning versus repentance. Repentance is the unlearning of all that has been learned about growing. Repentance is indeed a type of learning, but necessary, given so much bull shit that must be unlearned in order to arrive at a mental state of mind that is ready to accept the original condition of omniscience. After that, there is no more learning, no more "work", so-to-speak. Examples of bull shit. There is the idea that together, as we all go out and learn things, we contribute to a central knowledge-base from which we can benefit. Some of those learners feel that "God" is the primary beneficiary of the aggregate accumulation of our "knowledge", so-called. This more than implies, and they agree, that "God" is learning, hence, growing. It might take a couple more ridiculous, perhaps wasted, life/death cycles to become really weary of this kind of bull shit. Similar to the above idea is if we can marry enough women in this incarnation, we can be elevated to a higher level of god-hood, and eventually run our own planet, or be in charge of a solar system, or maybe even a galaxy. Maybe we could make our own galaxy and populate it ourselves. It might take two or three more ridiculous rides on the round-a-bout to really become weary of this idea, enough to stop trying to learn more about it. This could be hard depending on how tempting is the idea of a high hens-to-cock ratio. There are other examples of a "promised land", attained through much learning, much effort, even over several incarnations. All of these promised lands depend on an accumulation of learning, and are promising enough to drive (motivate) an excited mind through thousands of years of hardship. Thus, for the weary among us, it's important to understand that the unlearning of learning (repentance) is the most important type of learning we can be occupied with. Repentance leads to a state of mind, empty and ready, to ACCEPT the original Self, as well all it's conditions and attributes. I mean, empty and ready to accept all of those attributes and conditions as one's OWN. A mind that is empty is very still. Stillness is like peace...a peaceful state of mind. Logically, a peaceful state of mind is most ready to accept the deep, all encompassing peace of the original condition of the Self. Thus, any unlearning (repentance) that can lead to a very still state of mind, is worth the effort, and is probably accumulative over incarnational cycles, if the end-goal is not achieved in this cycle. Ultimately, it is not necessary to believe in reincarnation. And all unlearning can be hastened by aiming directly for a very still state of mind. The still state of mind does not believe in anything. This expresses readiness to accept a state of mind that knows all (believes in nothing). Its important to understand that faith (believing in things) is what causes the first incarnation, as well all subsequent incarnations. An empty mind is also empty of faith (no longer faith filled). It is this mind that is ready to accept the Original State Of Mind belonging to one's Own Self. Acceptance is the operative word. The Original State of Mind cannot be grasped. It cannot be learned. It can hardly be described in words. It can hardly be described by mental telepathy (high bandwidth words). You can't grow into it. You do not "become" it. You do not "arrive" at it. Instead, you become "ready" to accept it to be given back to you. It is necessary that it be given to you, just as it was given originally. Originally, it was never learned, never achieved, never purchased, never worked for, never arrived at, never become into. There are some people, not yet weary of making converts, who are fond of saying "have you accepted Christ?". Technically, there's nothing wrong with this, except that in this context it usually means, are you ready to accept all a lot of gaslighting about an old book. In the context i am presenting here, what ive said about readiness is the best understanding of what it means to "accept Christ". Having once rejected one's Self, long ago, one must stand ready to accept the Self to be given back. By "given back", i mean, the resumption of the actual experience that attaches to simply being that Self (i sometimes call it Christ). Reincarnation offers those of us, who have rejected the original Self, to experiment with many other "selves". In one incarnation i might be "Bob". In another i might be "Mary". In each incarnation i'm looking for something that fits, or something that is better, perhaps even something more "authentic". I might even be looking for the "best version" of my "self". All of this requires learning, not to mention a lot of work. Weariness is necessary to come to an end of this fruitless, go-nowhere, kind of work. In a worst case scenario, we will arrive under the thumb of a government (hierarchal structure) elected through identity politics, a really hellish scenario indeed. No, you don't have to believe in reincarnation. Likewise, you don't have to believe you are "Bob", or "Mary" or "black" or "white", or a "plumber" or a "carpenter". You don't have to believe in any of these identities that will eventually die (experience rapid radical change) and re-emerge (be born again) as something completely different. You could simplify, and relax (stop working so hard) by just believing in the concept of the True Self (by whatever name, i like Christ, but there is no name). This way, it is never really "you" who dies. This removes some of the sadness, but not all. The reason you must believe in the concept of the True Self is because you have no way of knowing, at least, not right now. As ive said before, faith destroys knowledge, especially the knowledge of the True Self. Nobody, who experiences incarnation (let alone many incarnations) has any clue about the True Self. Knows nothing, even less than nothing about it. In this condition, we are slaves of faith. This is because faith is the only alternative state of mind, once knowledge is banished. There are literally only two possible state of mind, looking at it from the slave side. Faith, or knowledge. Ignorance or omniscience. Looking at it from the freedom side, from the state of omniscience, faith is not really a viable alternative. Indeed, faith is not known as any kind of possibility. That's how ridiculous faith really is. Nevertheless, you must choose to believe in the True Original Self, if ever you will arrive at the state of mind that is ready to accept the Original Omniscience. This is due to a very tricky (dark, non-transparent) quality about faith that most believers are ignorant about: You only ever believe (have faith in) whatever you want to be true. This is truly "occult", meaning well-hidden "knowledge" so-to-speak. It is not hidden by the Original Self, which would like you to know this, but rather, hidden by faith itself, in it's insidious mal-function upon one's own mind. Therefore, if you are weary of reincarnation, you don't have to believe in incarnation anymore. With this attitude, you might eventually learn that not one incarnation has ever been true. We have only had this experience because we wanted it to be true. Those who disagree with this are merely expressing what they want to be true! This is why understanding motives and agendas is so important to escaping the status quo. There is only one thing that actually is true, what i call the True Self. We will believe this only if we want it to be true. Only then can we ever expect any "evidence" that it might possibly be true I'm saying emphatically, that evidence does not determine, nor should it ever determine, what is true. What is true is true, and it will become your experience only if you want it to be true.
Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps the past information/lives lived is available but not yet accessible, like a dream you can't really remember but know you had.
%% i was real sure there was no such thing as a title deed. But as the years went by i found out for sure theer was. However i wanted to buy real estate not rent all my life. Faith is the title deed/Hebrews 11;1