In the Coronavirus Fight in Scandinavia, Sweden Stands Apart

BeautifulStranger · Oct 5, 2020

gwb-trading said:
CDC says COVID-19 spreads through the air. Updates guidance.

It's very clear to reasonable people that the Trump administration forced the CDC to take down the earlier completely correct guidance. Now the administration has backed down seeing that Trump is in the hospital and the entire medical world has mocked the administration for forcing the CDC to put out fake information.

CDC revises coronavirus guidance to acknowledge that it spreads through airborne transmission
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/05/cdc...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

The CDC cited published reports that demonstrated “limited, uncommon circumstances” in which people with the virus infected others who were more than six feet away.

“In these instances, transmission occurred in poorly ventilated and enclosed spaces that often involved activities that caused heavier breathing, like singing or exercise,” the CDC said.

The agency added that it is “much more common” for the virus to spread through larger respiratory droplets that are produced when somebody coughs, sneezes, sings, talks, or breathes.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention revised its coronavirus guidance Monday, acknowledging that it can sometimes spread through airborne particles that can “linger in the air for minutes to hours” and among people who are more than six feet apart.

The CDC cited published reports that demonstrated “limited, uncommon circumstances where people with COVID-19 infected others who were more than 6 feet away or shortly after the COVID-19-positive person left an area.”

“In these instances, transmission occurred in poorly ventilated and enclosed spaces that often involved activities that caused heavier breathing, like singing or exercise,” the CDC said in a statement. “Such environments and activities may contribute to the buildup of virus-carrying particles.”

The agency added that it is “much more common” for the virus to spread through larger respiratory droplets that are produced when somebody coughs, sneezes, sings, talks, or breathes. People are infected through such droplets mostly when they are in close contact with an infected person, the CDC said.

“CDC’s recommendations remain the same based on existing science and after a thorough technical review of the guidance,” the agency said. “People can protect themselves from the virus that causes COVID-19 by staying at least 6 feet away from others, wearing a mask that covers their nose and mouth, washing their hands frequently, cleaning touched surfaces often and staying home when sick.”

The updated guidance comes after the agency mistakenly posted a revision last month that said the virus could spread through aerosols, small droplets that can linger in the air. The guidance was quickly removed from the CDC’s website because it was just “a draft version of proposed changes,” the agency said.

To what degree the coronavirus can spread through airborne particles has been a contentious debate among scientists for months. Some epidemiologists have charged that the World Health Organization as well as federal regulatory agencies in many countries have been slow to accept that the virus can spread by air. It’s a debate that could have implications for the importance of air filtration in reopening businesses and schools.

Dr. Bill Schaffner, an infectious disease specialist at Vanderbilt University, said the new guidance is largely in line with what he says the science indicates about the coronavirus spreading through the air. He said in a phone interview after reviewing the new guidance that airborne transmission is something of a “side street” for spread.

“Some cars do get through on the side street,” he said. “But the highways of transmission are close in, usually within enclosed spaces and for periods of time longer than 15 minutes with people standing within three to six feet of each other.”

Schaffner added that the new guidance doesn’t necessarily change how he thinks about reducing the risk of infection for most people. Wearing a mask, socially distancing and avoiding large indoor gatherings remain the most important steps people can take, he said.

But places of business, where many people come in and out everyday, might want to reexamine their ventilation systems, he said.

“Have your air handling system reviewed and see how efficient it is and whether you’re getting sufficient air exchanges per hour, and where the stuffy corners of the building are,” he said. “See if you can do something to enhance the air handling.”
More...

Didn’t we know all this stuff in late January or Feburary? Was not the choir as well as affected nursing homes in Washington State any indicaton to anyone outside of the medical profession that a respiratory, infuenza-like virus might spread through the air?

I pray for the day our political system finds leaders who can draw a line between two points.

jem · Oct 5, 2020

The exact same horsecrap about the choir practice I mentioned... no proof just innuendo.

Here is the exact quote... Notice the word "seem". "Seem" is a garbage word when it comes to real science. It indicates feelings... not data.

There is evidence that under certain conditions, people with COVID-19 seem to have infected others who were more than 6 feet away. These transmissions occurred within enclosed spaces that had inadequate ventilation. Sometimes the infected person was breathing heavily, for example while singing or exercising.

Under these circumstances, scientists believe that the amount of infectious smaller droplet and particles produced by the people with COVID-19 became concentrated enough to spread the virus to other people. The people who were infected were in the same space during the same time or shortly after the person with COVID-19 had left.

Available data indicate that it is much more common for the virus that causes COVID-19 to spread through close contact with a person who has COVID-19 than through airborne transmission. [1]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cdc-in-action.html

gwb-trading said:
CDC says COVID-19 spreads through the air. Updates guidance.

It's very clear to reasonable people that the Trump administration forced the CDC to take down the earlier completely correct guidance. Now the administration has backed down seeing that Trump is in the hospital and the entire medical world has mocked the administration for forcing the CDC to put out fake information.

CDC revises coronavirus guidance to acknowledge that it spreads through airborne transmission
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/05/cdc...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

The CDC cited published reports that demonstrated “limited, uncommon circumstances” in which people with the virus infected others who were more than six feet away.

“In these instances, transmission occurred in poorly ventilated and enclosed spaces that often involved activities that caused heavier breathing, like singing or exercise,” the CDC said.

The agency added that it is “much more common” for the virus to spread through larger respiratory droplets that are produced when somebody coughs, sneezes, sings, talks, or breathes.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention revised its coronavirus guidance Monday, acknowledging that it can sometimes spread through airborne particles that can “linger in the air for minutes to hours” and among people who are more than six feet apart.

The CDC cited published reports that demonstrated “limited, uncommon circumstances where people with COVID-19 infected others who were more than 6 feet away or shortly after the COVID-19-positive person left an area.”

“In these instances, transmission occurred in poorly ventilated and enclosed spaces that often involved activities that caused heavier breathing, like singing or exercise,” the CDC said in a statement. “Such environments and activities may contribute to the buildup of virus-carrying particles.”

The agency added that it is “much more common” for the virus to spread through larger respiratory droplets that are produced when somebody coughs, sneezes, sings, talks, or breathes. People are infected through such droplets mostly when they are in close contact with an infected person, the CDC said.

“CDC’s recommendations remain the same based on existing science and after a thorough technical review of the guidance,” the agency said. “People can protect themselves from the virus that causes COVID-19 by staying at least 6 feet away from others, wearing a mask that covers their nose and mouth, washing their hands frequently, cleaning touched surfaces often and staying home when sick.”

The updated guidance comes after the agency mistakenly posted a revision last month that said the virus could spread through aerosols, small droplets that can linger in the air. The guidance was quickly removed from the CDC’s website because it was just “a draft version of proposed changes,” the agency said.

To what degree the coronavirus can spread through airborne particles has been a contentious debate among scientists for months. Some epidemiologists have charged that the World Health Organization as well as federal regulatory agencies in many countries have been slow to accept that the virus can spread by air. It’s a debate that could have implications for the importance of air filtration in reopening businesses and schools.

Dr. Bill Schaffner, an infectious disease specialist at Vanderbilt University, said the new guidance is largely in line with what he says the science indicates about the coronavirus spreading through the air. He said in a phone interview after reviewing the new guidance that airborne transmission is something of a “side street” for spread.

“Some cars do get through on the side street,” he said. “But the highways of transmission are close in, usually within enclosed spaces and for periods of time longer than 15 minutes with people standing within three to six feet of each other.”

Schaffner added that the new guidance doesn’t necessarily change how he thinks about reducing the risk of infection for most people. Wearing a mask, socially distancing and avoiding large indoor gatherings remain the most important steps people can take, he said.

But places of business, where many people come in and out everyday, might want to reexamine their ventilation systems, he said.

“Have your air handling system reviewed and see how efficient it is and whether you’re getting sufficient air exchanges per hour, and where the stuffy corners of the building are,” he said. “See if you can do something to enhance the air handling.”
More...

jem · Oct 5, 2020

Or the people in the choir practice could have been coughed on by droplets... or already infected earlier.

that is the exact case I mentioned earlier...
this is the fear of aerosol spread we had for months.
Nothing has been found since then? what 30 million cases later?

BeautifulStranger said:
Didn’t we know all this stuff in late January or Feburary? Was not the choir as well as affected nursing homes in Washington State any indicaton to anyone outside of the medical profession that a respiratory, infuenza-like virus might spread through the air?

I pray for the day our political system finds leaders who can draw a line between two points.
More...

BeautifulStranger · Oct 5, 2020

jem said:
Or the people in the choir practice could have been coughed on by droplets... or already infected earlier.

that is the exact case I mentioned earlier...
this is the fear of aerosol spread we had for months.
Nothing has been found since then? what 30 million cased later?
More...

There is actually a contact tracing methodology, among other things. How in the hell you think Covid spreads? Think about the process of infection between an infected person to an unrelated uninfected person. For more information, go to NEJM.org.

jem · Oct 5, 2020

Exactly my argument.
With all the cases contact traced... they have no new evidence of aerosol spread... 30 million cases or so later?

Covid spreads... as they said...by droplets. The distinction about droplets being they don't float around on the air... gravity pulls them down.

We already played your game with the NEJM.... it proved my point the last time we played that game.

BeautifulStranger said:
There is actually a contact tracing methodology, among other things. How in the hell you think Covid spreads? Think about the process of infection between an infected person to an unrelated uninfected person. For more information, go to NEJM.org.
More...

BeautifulStranger · Oct 5, 2020

jem said:
Exactly my argument.
With all the cases contact traced... they have no new evidence of aerosol spread... 30 million cases or so later?

Covid spreads... as they said...by droplets. The distinction about droplets being they don't float around on the air... gravity pulls them down.

We already played your game with the NEJM.... it proved my point the last time we played that game.
More...

I know Bugenhagen has been critical of you, but I really didn’t think anything of it. Until now. Read my post again and instead of reacting emotionally, pretend you are forensic investigator trying to find the causes behind the rapid global spread of a dangerous virus.

Do your research and you will stop posting misinformation.

Go.

jem · Oct 5, 2020

if you have a point make it clearly.
I just reread your post.
I am not emotional about this at all.
Telling me to go to the NEJM is not a valid argument.

Science requires repeatable experiments.
Or, when you can't do experiments... data.

We can't even have an argument about what the data is saying...
because no one has even presented contact tracing or other type data.
Produce some data.. they we can determine if it is statistically significant.

To anyone who is taking the other side of this argument....
produce the data or you have opinion, not science.

BeautifulStranger said:
I know Bugenhagen has been critical of you, but I really didn’t think anything of it. Until now. Read my post again and instead of reacting emotionally, pretend you are forensic investigator trying to find the causes behind the rapid global spread of a dangerous virus.

Do your research and you will stop posting misinformation.

Go.
More...

LacesOut · Oct 5, 2020

LacesOut · Oct 5, 2020

jem · Oct 6, 2020

So Canada is exploding with Covid.
Highest daily infections ever...

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/canada

1. To you lefties who keep making that irresponsible people argument. Does this mean Canada has irresponsible people? .
I see lefties making that argument time after time?
as if the virus would go away... if we just were willing to listen to them. Its got nothing to do with bad govt... just bad non lefties.

2. Are you all beginning to understand how stupid it was to not have the low risk group acquire antibodies during the warm weather?

I don't wish ill on Canada... ever... at all.
But, when you live in a colder climate you can't afford to be so stupid as to think hiding the low risk group from the virus in the warm weather months is a good idea. The virus did not go away..
So it was far more dangerous than useful.

Anders Tegnall was correct when he said before you judge any countries approach you have to see what happens when they are open.