Important economic consequences to the US economy because of declining US influence

Discussion in 'Politics' started by SouthAmerica, Jun 14, 2005.

  1. Wow, please take an english grammar lesson before you post again. You have just described what the American politicians have done to the umpteenth degree over the past several decades to the American people. Billions of dollars have been given to Halliburton in no-bid contracts in Iraq and Billions more have been "lost" without any accountability. The american politicians just sugarcoat all these events so idiots like you think everything is fine and dandy, hiding behind Sept. 11th and the false illusion of freedom and democracy. As for the US losing of global influence in the world, you really need to watch the news sometime. Or perhaps take a political science/international relations course, it's obvious to every single analyst in the world that US power and influence is waning. You don't even have to be an analyst to figure this out. DO this.... Watch the news (not just FOX), figure out what's going on in the world, see how thin the US military is being stretched, realize that the vast majority of the world have negative feelings about the US. Now after you have done all this, try to use your brain and put two and two togther. However, by reading your post, I highly doubt you have the intelligence to do so or have the ability to comprehend English.
     
    #21     Jun 16, 2005
  2. SteveD

    SteveD

    Why do we have such a problem with everyone in the world trying to get in the US all the time??

    With this major decline coming soon I would assume people would be trying to immigrate to Germany, France, South America, China or perhaps, Iran or Syria.

    It just amazes me how silly people are in coming to the US when such a dire future is all but certain, LOL.

    Just pray you don't ever run out of Kool-Aid, boys and girls.

    SteveD
     
    #22     Jun 16, 2005
  3. .

    Sputdr: There are several problems with omission of facts in the article.

    1. It ignores the survey of the self-employed.

    I fully agree with you though, the US is in decline. The major problem with it is that when the US declines the rest of the world does too and much much worse.

    and if you think China is going to save you, think again. They don't care about their own people, what makes you think they care about you Brazilians?


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    SouthAmerica: At least half of the people who call themselves self-employed are in that position because they can’t find full time employment – and most of these people have a real hard time making ends meet.

    To stop this disastrous decline in the US economy, the US government should stop putting so much money on defense spending and they should start investing these billions in the infrastructure of the American economy. This upgrade of the US infrastructure would cost at least $ 2 trillion dollars in today’s dollars to fix roads, bridges, transportation system, the electric grid, the water distribution system of the major cities, ports, rail system, airports, communications system, education, and so on…

    Most of these projects would create jobs inside of the US economy.

    There is a new worldwide depression on the way, and it will be hard for everyone, including China and Brazil.

    I never said it would be easy.

    But today Brazil has been making alliances with a number of new countries to diversify its dependency from one country or area – for many years Europe have been more important to Brazil than the US – Brazil does more business with the European Union than with the United States.


    It is not about China saving Brazil, has nothing to do about care. It is not about political ideology. It is about doing business. China is an important customer for Brazil, and will become even more important in the future.


    Here I am quoting from one of my articles published in 2003:

    “There is an important lesson to be learned from the French President Charles de Gaulle.

    In the 1960's he received a call from a head of state that claimed that he was a friend of Charles de Gaulle, and he told Mr. de Gaulle that he could not understand, why France was doing business with Iraq? Charles de Gaulle told his friend, "sure I am your friend, but countries don't have friends, countries have only interests."

    For example: in the 1980's, the country Iraq was considered a friend of the United States, but who needs friends like that? There is no guaranty that any country, which is your friend today, will not become your enemy tomorrow.

    Nothing in life is guaranteed—other than taxes and death.


    ******************


    domi93: This is incredible!

    This guy southamerica (a communist)

    is saying that Chavez is helping the poor in Venezuela???


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    SouthAmerica: Please stop with that communist stuff.

    The Russians are not coming.

    Castro is not coming.

    The boogieman is not coming.

    Communism has died a fast death with the Soviet Union demise in 1991.

    Communism is history.

    China is killing the US economy, not with communist ideology. They are killing the American economy playing the capitalist game – and these guys know how to play it.

    They are defeating the American economy with price, high quality of what they are producing, efficiency, low costs, unbelievable scale of production, hard work, business savy, by saving money to invest, by educating their labor force, ruthless business competition, etc.

    If you still in the “communism mode” you don’t know what is going on around the world. (There are few rejects from the old system that still around, but China and Russia has moved forward and they are young capitalists nations today.)

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    #23     Jun 17, 2005
  4. MONACO11

    MONACO11

    Shameless post of FLUFF ..

    Did you write this?

    Monaco
     
    #24     Jun 17, 2005
  5. MONACO11

    MONACO11

    .Okay...an add on..

    I can post a lot of this bulshat..

    STOP this insainity.


    WE have 5 MILLION kids at this moment are HUNGRY..guess
    what, in that span of time another 85,000 kids just died.

    Some SHIT huh...

    Get off your ass, help a kid just breathe....

    Monaco
     
    #25     Jun 17, 2005
  6. .



    Monaco11: I can post a lot of this bulshat..

    STOP this insanity.

    WE have 5 MILLION kids at this moment are HUNGRY..guess
    what, in that span of time another 85,000 kids just died.

    Some SHIT huh...

    Get off your ass, help a kid just breathe....

    Monaco


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    SouthAmerica: I don’t know what are you talking about. I don’t know which country are you from. I don’t know which country are you talking about.

    I know you are not a Brazilian, because Brazil has over 10 million homeless kids scattered around the big cities in Brazil. (Brazil used to have over 10 million homeless kids about 5 or 6 years ago. Today the number could be even higher. I don’t have the latest statistics.)

    Half of the Brazilian population is destitute today. The middle class has been shrinking in Brazil in the last 30 years. Today, we have a concentration of wealth in the hands of very few people like we never seen it before. There is a lot of poverty in Brazil today, and I have no idea why you think that what I am saying is fluff.

    You said that 5 million kids are hungry where you are – that does not say much to me. There is a long list of countries that that statement would apply – half of the population in Africa is hungry. More than a one-third of the Brazilian population is hungry – that is why Lula started a major program in Brazil to reduce hunger in the population. That is why Chavez in Venezuela also is helping the poor people – I understand that for the first time the poor can go to government stores and buy some basic food items at reasonable prices subsidized by the Venezuelan government oil revenue.

    I will post an article on the subject that I wrote a few years ago that generated a lot of angry emails and letters to the editor.

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    #26     Jun 18, 2005
  7. .

    SouthAmerica: In March 2000 I wrote an article that became the cover article for “The Brasilians” newspaper in April 2000. That issue was an especial edition commemorating Brazil’s 500 years as a country. The article “Overpopulated” was republished on Brazzil magazine in July 2002. Here is a copy of that article:


    Brazzil
    History
    Monday, July 01, 2002

    “Overpopulated”

    Brazil started the century with 17 million people and ended it with an estimated total population of 170 million people. When the population of a country grows ten fold during a period of 100 years, that country is asking for social trouble, as is happening in Brazil.
    Written by Ricardo C. Amaral


    On April 22, 1500 Brazil was discovered by a Portuguese explorer named Pedro Álvares Cabral, and Brazil became a colony of Portugal.

    "In other parts of the world colonies were used as trading posts to facilitate the commerce and trade of products between the mother country and that particular region. Since Brazil did not have products for trade with Europe, it was necessary to develop agricultural production for the benefit of European commerce. Brazil came into being as a producer of goods for international trade with the plantation system (fazenda) as the basis for its economy to produce sugar and other agricultural commodities for trade with Europe." 1

    To develop this agricultural system they started using slave labor; first they tried to use the slave labor of the native Brazilian Indians. This did not work well for the Portuguese. Later they started bringing black slaves from Africa with a somewhat better result.

    The Brazilian economy was built and developed using slave labor. Slavery was abolished in Brazil only in 1888. This is a period in Brazilian history that we should be ashamed of. That is, if we analyze it from a humanistic point of view.

    "Before the importation of African slaves, the main suppliers of Indian slaves were the Paulistas—the people from the Captaincy of São Paulo. The Paulistas were a new people; a mixture of Portuguese and Native Brazilian Indian. The Paulistas were a major force in the development of the bandeiras movement. This group of people called the bandeirantes were to be the chief pioneering element in Brazil. They did more than any other group to push the line of demarcation westward until Brazil included half of the South American Continent." 1 (In 1494 Portugal and Spain had agreed to a line of demarcation by the Treaty of Tordesillas.)


    Brazilian Population Growth

    The population in Brazil grew as follows:

    YEAR……........POPULATION

    1500……...….………….. 0
    1600………….……100,000
    1700…………….…300,000
    1800…………… 3,250,000
    1900…………. 17,000,000
    2000…………170,000,000

    "Brazil started the century in 1900 with a total population of 17 million people. Brazil ended the century with an estimated total population of 170 million people. When the population of a country grows ten fold during a period of 100 years, that country is asking for social trouble, as is happening in Brazil. It does not matter which system a country has: capitalism, communism, or socialism; this magnitude of population growth is a prescription for disaster.

    "Today some people wonder why there is so much crime in Brazil and why its civil system is breaking down. People look for simplistic answers to the problems. They consider drugs, or something else, as the reason for the breakdown. However, the obvious reason (population explosion) is never understood as being the cause of the problems.

    "In the United States, Americans built an economic system in which the economy has to grow, grow and grow, and can't be allowed to stagnate. Growth, growth, and more growth is the mindset of Americans. The United States had only five million people around 1800, when its Constitution and Bill of Rights were drafted and put into effect. The United States population had increased to 76 million people by 1900, but they had new lands, which they had bought or conquered since 1800. The United States could still afford to continue growing at that point in its history." 2

    Today there are many studies estimating the optimum population the United States can support based on its resources, wealth, location, environmental considerations and type of economic structure. "Among these studies is one by David and Marcia Pimentel, professors at Cornell University. They suggest the United States should aim at a population of less than 100 million people. University of Maryland professor Robert Costanza reaches a more pessimistic estimate of 85 million people." 2

    Based on the various studies it seems that up to 150 million people can be an acceptable limit of population for the United States. Above this number Americans are looking for trouble.

    The United States reached the 151 million people mark in 1950; by 1970 the US had increased its population to over 200 million people. The country again increased its population to an estimated 275 million people by the year 2000.

    Is it really surprising that the prison population started exploding in the United States since 1970, after the optimum population for this country of 150 million continued growing in numbers?

    With the accelerated advances in technology and automation that we have today in the United States, the optimum population for the United States probably should be reduced to an even lower amount of people. Maybe the country should not have a population larger than 120 million people.

    Most people don't understand and don't give much thought to the power of geometric progression (exponential growth) and its effect on population growth. For example, to show the power of exponential growth, in the 1980's more than 10 million legal and illegal immigrants arrived in the United States. This group of people will grow in numbers to approximately 25 million people by the year 2035.

    To give another example, the estimated 25 million total legal and illegal immigrants who came to the United States during the 20-year period from 1980 to 2000, will grow to approximately 60 million people by the year 2040.

    Government officials and the business community only think of their immediate needs of keeping labor costs down. They never think about the consequence of a growing population on future generations and its impact on the future of the country.

    Governments such as the United States and Brazil have learned nothing from the past. They brought slaves from Africa to accommodate their needs a long time ago, never giving much thought about the consequences of their actions on future generations. Today the United States is making the same mistake again regarding its immigration policies. The US is still letting one million people immigrate to the US per year, even though today the United States has a population of 275 million people; a number which is probably double the optimum population.


    The limit to population growth in Brazil

    If we do the same type of analysis for Brazil, we might come to a similar result. Brazil probably should not have a population larger than 80 to 100 million people as its limit. Today, Brazil might have twice the population that could be considered an optimum and desirable number of people for the country based on its natural resources, size, location, type of economy, etc.

    Population explosion is, in my opinion, the most important problem in Brazil. It is the cause of all other problems in Brazil today, including poverty and destitution for a large segment of the population, drugs, crime, corruption, etc.

    There are two policies, which the Brazilian government should adopt immediately to put Brazil on the right path for its future. First, the Brazilian government should put in place a policy to reduce its population from its current 170 million people to a target of 100 million people by a certain attainable date.

    Second, the Brazilian government should adopt the "Euro" as its new currency. The adoption of the "Euro" by Brazil would help the country to move economically into the 21st century. These would be the major two steps, which Brazil could take today which could have the most beneficial result for its future. These policies would have a positive impact not only socially but also economically. These policies would help update the Brazilian economy and move it in the right direction in the new millennium.


    Notes: Note (1) are quotes from the book José Bonifácio de Andrada e Silva - The Greatest Man in Brazilian History by Ricardo C. Amaral © 1998

    Note (2) are quotes from the book José Bonifácio de Andrada e Silva - The final chapter to end slavery in the Americas by Ricardo C. Amaral © 1999

    Note (3) In the above table I am using zero population for the year 1500. This number doesn’t include the estimated 5 million natives that historians estimates that were living in Brazil in 1500 at the time of the discovery of Brazil.


    Copyright © 2002 All rights reserved.
    By: Ricardo C. Amaral
    Author / Economist
    brazilamaral@yahoo.com


    Published on Brazzil magazine on July 2002
    http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/6963/73/


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    #27     Jun 18, 2005
  8. .

    April 25, 2006

    SouthAmerica: Here is another actual example regarding the fast “Declining US Global Influence”.

    It is not happening only in South America or in Asia - it is happening in many other places around the world including in the Middle East.

    After all the fiascos here in the United States the Chinese president went to Saudi Arabia - were he was able to accomplish better results for his country.

    In Saudi Arabia they followed normal protocol regarding a visit by another head of state and the Chinese president was happy not to be insulted as he had been on his visit to the United States.




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    The New York Times
    April 22, 2006
    “Avoiding Political Talk, Saudis and Chinese Build Trade”
    By HASSAN M. FATTAH

    As President Hu Jintao of China made his first state visit to Saudi Arabia yesterday, his arrival in Riyadh offered the latest sign of shifting winds across the oil-rich Persian Gulf region: China has grown as a major market for oil, and Arab states have begun turning to it as an alternative to the United States and Europe in other areas.

    "We are opening new channels, we are heading east," said Prince Walid bin Talal, a billionaire investor and member of the royal family. "China is a big consumer of oil. Saudi Arabia needs to open new channels beyond the West.

    So this is good for both of us."

    Mr. Hu and King Abdullah signed a series of agreements to strengthen cooperation in several areas yesterday, including energy exploration and security, Agence France-Presse reported.

    Mr. Hu also plans to meet with Saudi businessmen and today is scheduled to become one of the few foreign leaders ever to address the Shura, the consultative council that advises the king and cabinet. He is also expected to visit East Province, Saudi Arabia's premier oil-producing region.

    For decades, many Middle Eastern countries saw China as a source of low price, low quality goods or, worse, as a Marxist threat that armed rebel groups in the region during the 1950's and 1960's. But relations warmed in the 1990's, and oil trade boomed.

    Now, interest in China and other Asian countries is rising throughout the Arab world. In Dubai, the sprawling Chinamex Mart, a mall of Chinese businesses, is seeking to become the largest distribution hub for Chinese products in the region. Chinese diplomats are making their presence felt on the society pages of local newspapers, and airlines in the region have been adding flights to Asian capitals. University courses in Chinese history and language have become more popular than ever.

    "Saudi leaders are moving from benign neglect of China to considering it as a long-term partner," said Samuel Blatteis, a Fulbright fellow who has studied the growing ties between China and the Persian Gulf. "China is no longer the only side doing the courting."

    Part of what makes China an especially attractive business partner for Saudis is a hands-off approach to domestic policy. Discussions with the Chinese focus on economics and rarely on politics, businessmen say.

    China has been willing to do business with Iran and other states isolated by the United States, and can sell technology without the encumbrance of requirements for Congressional or parliamentary approval.

    "With the Chinese there are no strings attached," said Gal Luft, co-director of the Institute for the Analysis of Global Security. "They don't talk to you about democracy or reform. They give money, the Saudis give oil and there are no hidden agendas. The Saudis find those kinds of relationships more appealing."

    In 2004, the two countries agreed to hold more regular political consultations while Sinopec, China's state-owned oil company, signed a deal to explore for gas in the forbidding deserts known as the Empty Quarter. Last year, Saudi Aramco signed a $3.6 billion deal with Exxon Mobil and Sinopec for a joint oil refining and chemicals venture in south Fujian Province. Talks are continuing with Sinopec regarding investing in a plant in the northern Chinese port city of Qingdao.

    Relations became even closer in January, when King Abdullah visited Beijing and signed a memorandum of understanding for greater cooperation and investment in oil, natural gas and minerals.

    Saudi oil sales to China have more than doubled in recent years, and now account for almost 17 percent of China's oil imports. Trade between the countries exceeded $15 billion in 2005, having grown an average of 41 percent a year since 1999, according to the Chinese Ministry of Commerce.

    "When you have a country of 1.3 billion people growing at 10 percent annually, importing millions of tons of oil, Saudi Arabia has to be there," Prince Walid said. "It's clear Saudi Arabia is going where its interests are, and China is going where its interests are."

    Strained relations with the United States since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks have also pushed Saudi interests toward China, where businessmen can travel without waiting months for a visa, as they do to visit the United States, said Omar Bahlaiwa, secretary general for the Committee for International Trade, a branch of the Saudi Chambers of Commerce.

    And the recent outcry from Congress and the American public over the possibility of having ports controlled by a company in Dubai sent a loud message to the Arab world, convincing many businessmen that their fortunes now lie in the East, Mr. Bahlaiwa and others say.

    China's growing technological and military prowess only adds to the interest. That avenue was opened in the late 1980's, when China supplied Saudi Arabia with intermediate-range ballistic missiles. Now, if the United States balks at offering modern weaponry to the Saudis, China would again be a logical source.

    "Things have changed because there has been a shake-up in the balance of power," said Muhammad Bin Huweiden, a political science professor at Emirates University in the United Arab Emirates who researches Chinese-Arab relations. "With the growing power of the Shia, and Iran, Saudi Arabia has felt cornered, and it has begun to look eastward. They are betting that the balance of power may be achieved again by going to the Chinese."

    Yet Saudis are quick to note that China's gain is not necessarily America's loss. China cannot provide the security guarantees that the United States has to most of the countries in the Persian Gulf. In that light, the idea that Saudi Arabia would turn entirely to China can also be seen as a bit of political stagecraft.

    "We are in a Catholic marriage with America," Mr. Bahlaiwa said, emphasizing that divorce is unthinkable. "But we are also Muslims — we can have more than one wife."
    Massoud Derhally contributed reporting for this article.


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    #28     Apr 25, 2006
  9. Rise or Decline,

    current trends vs. prior trends....

    after WWII, America was at just one of its zeniths (all time highs) in world dominance, popularity, favor, strength and such.

    It cost our economy going from a consumer based to a war footing that was quickly taken back all through the 1950's.

    We returned to self interest (to the larger extent) instead of maintaining armies in multiple theaters throughout the world / globe.

    We have constantly declined in influence given that the other countries regained their economies and self interests. We encouraged other countries to reestablish their economies so that we were not the only manufacturing location still capable of production.

    So, yes, the basic premise of your thesis is a well documented fact.

    By contrast, China visiting Saudi Arabia and your comments regarding their reception there, well, Saudi Arabia has its own issues, which they are better able to hide. The US has always been a difficult country for diplomats to visit in their official capacities.

    So, how does any of this translate into a better way to hedge a trade?

    or, how does any of this translate into better insight into Foreign Currency Trading?

    or, how does any of this translate into Equity trading in another country?

    Most of us on this board attempt to:
    1) make an "issue" statement
    2) relate it to trading
    3) attempt to profit from the discussion.

    Please do all 3 steps, and then your contributions will have the respect that they deserve.

    ((I hope I said that respectfully, and it translates into your language, and I personally appreciate your translation into English and your attempts at posting here, just in case others don't express that))
     
    #29     Apr 25, 2006
  10. Brazil is now 100% energy independent because of their vision of the future with regards to oil use...

    Other countries are following along....and receiving Brazilian expertise in cane ethanol production...automotive adoption to alt fuels...for which they have been perfecting for over 30 years...

    It will be a huge economic help for the smaller developing Latin countries to keep the money that they create within their own countries...This will be a huge economic boom in that some of their annual budgets pay over 25% on fossil fuel imports...

    These smaller countries can change fast because they do not have as many autos per capita...and 60 cents per gallon ethanol costs by making use of the cane bagasse as fuel....is far more economical than what they are paying for fuel even with the Chavez program....

    They already have sugar mills in place....and are making quick conversions to ethanol....Their climates and soil types are perfect for cane production...

    Because of Brazil...their future is much brighter....

    More money to spend on health care...education...etc...

    The gift of energy independence is a wonderful thing particularly when its green....
     
    #30     Apr 25, 2006