You're not understanding my position on this, which is my fault for not being totally clear. I'm not supporting the Union per say, I'm defending the rule of law. The employer, in this case the state, is bound by contract, as are the employees. The employer is within their right to "ask" the employees to reopen contractual negations in the middle of the contract. No problem!. The employees are within their right to tell the employer to go take a hike. No problem! At that point the employer is within their right to say fine, I'm laying off whatever percentage of the workforce they deem necessary. I have no problem with that either. What I have a problem with is when either side just arbitrarily says, screw you, I'm breaking the contract. That's B.S.!! Contracts must mean something or there's no point in having one at all. I don't think anyone would like to go purchase a new car at 0% interest for 60 months and 6 months later get a letter saying, we're on hard times, your new interest rate is 5%, effective immediately. You'll find your new payment book enclosed!
This is the reason why more states need to do what Wisconsin did, and change the law regarding public sector unions. Private sector unions have little to no control over who the CEO of a company is, or what he does. So it is somewhat necessary for the private sector to have a union in some cases. (thought i dont like the idea there either) If they get to greedy the company ends up bankrupt like all the U.S. automakers did due to the UAW. So if they get to piggish they lose their job, Public sector unions can control who comes into power at election day, then on top of that they become complete assholes once they get their people in charge and threaten to go on strike when the most modest concessions are needed in order to stay solvent. The states, and cities rarely go bankrupt, they just keep taking more and more money from working people, to give to these union thugs for votes. It would actually be poetic justice if some of these public sector unions bankrupted their states and ended up with nothing. The state doesnt have the same options the private sector does, because they do not really have the option of bankruptcy, because it then becomes much tougher for them to finance their day to day operations due to higher interest rates. So basically everyone as a taxpayer is asked to sacrifice to support their bloated ridiculous salaries. How many government unions have you seen who were willing to take modest pay cuts in order to save people's jobs within their union? The fact of the matter is that the public sector unions are just as corrupt as any corporation is, they choose to have workers laid off EVERY SINGLE TIME as long as the guys at the top/people with tenure can keep getting their raises. Public sector unions are completely useless and all they have managed to do is make it so that we pay more and more to the government and get less and less for it. Look at statistics that rate the efficiency of any governmental unit, and they are down across the board when unions are involved. Cant believe that you dont see this when you rail away against CEO's all day every day, and are a big supporter of unions.
I have no problem with abolishing public sector Unions so long as it's done legally. I'm just saying as it stands right now the state has a contract with a Union and must honor it, or be in violation of the law. They, the state, are within their right to change the law through due process at the legislative level, but I would argue any new law could not be retroactive. It would only apply from that date forward. In other words, they would still have to honor the old contract until it expired.
Well i hate to break it to you but if that is your stance then there is no choice but default and incredible pain for everyone inside of most of these states. The unfunded pension liabilities alone in almost every heavily liberal state like Illinois, New Jersey, New York, or California is more than enough to bankrupt the states if no concessions are made. Hell most Republican states are fucked too if government unions dont make concessions. The government unions have bled these states dry for decades, and there is absolutely no way to fully fund these promises/pensions going foreword. The states/cities/municipalities are basically facing the same problem with unfunded pensions, and government employee pay, that the federal government is facing with social security and medicare/medicaid. While the federal government is just printing money, the states dont have that option, but they are all pulling budgeting gimmicks right now, which will get them through another year or 2, barring an insane economic bubble at that point the states are going to have to pay the piper, and then we will see some real pain, if the government unions dont make some concessions.
The state IS laying off employees. So I take it your position is the state should attempt to negotiate with the union first before the layoffs. I don't have an issue with that. In fact the state should have already begun that process long before now. Better yet, not concede ridiculous wage and benefit demands in the first place.
Yep, the unions in almost every single case are taking layoffs in order to hold on to their raises, and not have to make any contribution to their pensions, or healthcare. The states have tried to negotiate, but the unions wont have it. I wonder if the people who live in these states will wake the fuck up 3 years from now when we have 130 students to a classroom, and our classrooms start to looks like the ones you see on those commercials to donate to africa where everyone is sitting on the floor and there is no chalk board. Atleast the teacher will still be clearing 100k a year.
So I don't see where we disagree. I stated that the employer/employees would be within their rights to give concessions(renegotiate) should the employer offer that, and they would be smart to do that. Are they smart? That's another question. To my knowledge most government unions are willing to make concessions. The problem is hardcore republicans wanting to abolish unions altogether without going through due process. Far as where the money comes from. Send the bill to the f'n banks. They broke this shit. Let them fix it.