IBKR IPOed at $30 for 40 million shares. A month ago when the price was $24 they announced they might buy back 8 million shares. If the price falls to mid single digits they will be able to buy back the entire float for a couple of hundred million. IB claim to have $4 Billion in equity.
Its practically private now at 90% owned by mgmt. If they didn't already have so much skin in the game I'm sure they'd be buying at this level. Maybe they are. Either the whole system if #$%#$%ed or they are being thrown out with the losers. Hard to tell
i have a pretty large IB account. i'm a bit worried about the connections to citigroup. i'm swiss, so european customer and i remember that i had to transfer deposits to a citigroup account. so, is my money at citigroup? or is it seperate under IB? what happens if Citi blows up (which seems very possible).
======================= Most likely heavy bear market trends, heavy sector trends, to put it simple........ Its doing better than C, or MER, by most any measure. And in a market where you have 3 automobile execs begging for gov handout, in thier corp jets; IBKR exec will ride a horse if he has too, & you may have seen a picture of him on a horse.
Letter to the SEC For account ##### under my name ###### on November 20, 2008 Interactive Brokers (IB)(Timber Hill) was acting as my broker-dealer/execution provider for trades in Citigroup (C). I was holding roughly 15,000 shares Citigroup @ an average price of 4.80-4.90. I was prompted that I would receive a margin call even though I was not in deficit at that moment; I proceeded to liquidate some of my position anyway. If you will note the public trades in Citigroup at the end of the day approximately 4:45-4:50pm eastern for Nov. 20, 2008 you will see the marked decline of 5-10% roughly (many public data will not show) this and then correcting in seconds (this is after being down 20% already for the day and another 25% for the previous day). I believe this to be intentionally done to liquidate my position and others either by Interactive Brokers themselves or through Timber Hill the market maker or in collusion with other market participants due to the fact that these margin calculations are known to other market makers and specialists. The algorithms used for this calculation are rather complex but you can view them here: http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/trading/marginRequirements/margin.php?ib_entity=llc I believe the p&l and margin calculations are imprecise with respect to market volatility and to be the source of profit at interactive brokers/timber hill and that their automated market making activities take advantage of this. IB liquidated 6100 shares of Citigroup that I owned at 4.5 or less by issuing a market order that I did not authorize. Not seconds later the price corrected to above 4.80-4.90 where my position was not only liquid but profitable. It is my belief that this was done deliberately either by my broker-dealer or in concert with other market makers and or specialists to acquire my shares at the cheapest price the stock has traded at in years. This is not the first time I have complained about this "deleveraging" activity as I have detailed in other complaints. I believe this is at the root of current market instability; it drives small investors out of providing equity on the buy side to corporations because broker-dealers (IB) are not allowing us to hold long positions at any price level. I contacted FINRA and spoke to ##### who was very helpful but referred my call to NYSE Market Watch and there I spoke with #### who then referred me back to FINRA. I spoke with #### at Interactive Brokers about contacting the exchange to have the liquidated shares broken or returned he said he called the exchange but as I find, only called a receptionist. The call reference is ticket #### with ### and should be recorded the other follow up call is #### with #### at IB where I was told to contact the exchange myself in the morning. Please help me resolve this issue so I can have faith that this won't keep happening in the future. I am submitting the audit trail for your review. Best regards, ##### The above is abbreviated but for clarity let me explain: To all traders and to Citigroup please understand the ramifications of taking a position in any equity now and that market markers/specialists and hedge funds WILL NOT allow you to hold a significant long position, do not trade with any leverage however slight. This happens to primarily shareholders that try to hold out on the buy side as I have been trying to hold a position for some time now. This is what is happening to shareholder equity. Citigroup loses because capital does not get allocated where it is needed. I have no problem taking a loss but when I am forced out and then the bidding action corrects immediately that is to uncanny to believe. Take my lesson as a common example of what not to allow broker-dealers, institutions, and largely capitalized informed individuals to do. The last few days has been nothing more than market makers forcing liquidations and stop losses. You will not be able to keep your long positions. They get to trade with HUGE leverage and therefore can create the volatility you see and profit for themselves. It is deceptive to think that one can price and hedge accordingly but with the use of dark pools of liquidity and off market transactions, the lack of trading curbs that were removed last year as well as naked short selling and numerous other exchange rules that assist large institutions, individuals and small institutions are not able to compete. If you watch tick data with statistical algorithms closely you will notice the market makers and prime brokerages of hedge funds who are responsible for this but know one really knows who their counterparty is. Letâs think about what is happening, if we approach 100% volatility or even 50%, any one who trades with stop losses or anyone even slightly leveraged in either side of a trade (long or short) will be forced out of a reasonable position if such volatility become commonplace. This is know as directionless market manipulation. If markets are mean reverting in the short run (like days now rather than weeks) then it is no problem for large institutions to short sale or scalp all day to achieve their market neutral goals. Ultimately they only make money when you lose, in many instances of late they are forcing you to lose by taking out your stop losses, market to market your retirement savings to nothing, scaring you with propaganda and useless âanalystâ estimates etc. Watch my example to see where my position will have gone and tell me if this is legitimate activity, even after hours it was the right decision. If you google you will find many instances where brokers like IB are involved in these practices. We need fair dealing not faceless quants at hedge funds who go home flat and only take positions for intraday gain and broker-dealers like IB who are trying to shore up their own liquidity problems with client funds. Institutions need our money to clean up their mess. What do they care if markets tank, they simply acquire shares on the cheap to be pushed back up later when itâs unexpected and they can afford to cheaply adjust their inventory. I am not saying that markets should not correct and there is not a true recession with macroeconomic implications blah blah. All I am saying is that the activities of some market participants are certainly behind this and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. To have major equities change 20-50-75% in a matter or minutes and days is not a reasonable place for retirement income that is certain. I am sure I will receive the usual rant from posting this but its better to be open with this. Few people in finance will be frank with you, as the bulletin boards are full of people on the staffs of hedge funds, yes there is very much a psychological aspect to trading. Coming from a trading desk in the past at a still viable major investment bank I know this goes on. When enough small institutions and traders leave because of this liquidity, begins to dry up. What remains is a few fraudulent and ruthless institutions whose practices are not any different than a common street scam. I do not pretend to know the direction of markets but I know that it is not fair dealing when those with low-latency market data, huge databases of tick data, and sophisticated computer algorithms prey on the general public with impunity and any time they get caught in a bad position they can just turn on a computer program to get them out of it. The markets are now directly opposite of demand based markets because market makers(hedge funds) have to adjust inventory to accommodate their profit motive, lots of selling makes markets go up, lots of buying makes markets go down in the short term. If you donât believe this get some capital and participate.
That's quite a rant algotrading. Exactly what account size/margin did this position in C trigger? I've never heard of a margin call that was not within advertised limits, though I rarely trade at high margin myself unless fully hedged. Are you pushing the envelope and causing this grief on yourself? Being long C is in itself an act of masochism.
Push the limit? This moron claims he gets a margin liquidation at $4.50, but is profitable at $4.80. LOL. Not likely, but you see who you're dealing with. OldTrader