If every company in the S&p buys bitcoin we could see s&p 100k in 3 yrs!

Discussion in 'Trading' started by S2007S, Oct 8, 2024.

  1. NoahA

    NoahA

    I do agree that Bitcoin will co-exist with USD, but at the same time, if the bond market is the most important market, and if US treasuries underpin the entire banking system, when everyone understands that the US will never pay the debt and will never get spending under control, the door to get out will not be big enough.

    I understand what you're saying and its very logical to feel the way you do about state rules and taxes. But we are at the point where it is obvious that the government isn't your friend. They aren't trying to make the country better for everyone, just for the elite. The system is corrupt to the core and there is no way bring it back other than burning it down and starting new. Everything starts with a new money that is more fair. A global money is just as big as the internet, if not bigger. Think about it like this. Isn't it good that the internet works the same in every country? Can you imagine if governments had control of who posts what?

    Once you go down the path of realizing that government is the problem, then understanding bitcoin is even easier. Don't forget that the USD wouldn't be the problem if the government didn't abuse the privilege of being able to print up as much as they want and spending it on shit that most people don't support. Each time the government spends and borrows, they give your wages the middle finger. The only solution is taking away control from the government to print. When you think about, all the government should be able to do is collect taxes and redistribute in such a way as to provide the most good for the most people. We are so past that point.
     
    #21     Oct 9, 2024
    johnarb likes this.
  2. I still fail to see how they cannot make a gold standard work with modern tech and infrastructure. Bitcoin seems like an easy way out of doing a proper implementation of a gold standard with all the criticisms I've mentioned on crypto. We don't even know if the bitcoin network can survive a Carrington event.
     
    #22     Oct 9, 2024
  3. NoahA

    NoahA

    Because there is no way to verify any gold holdings, and because its too expensive to move gold around and store is securely.

    But lets just look at the first. How do you prove that you have the gold you say you do? Picture? Who will you trust to say this is so because clearly regular people can't go into the vaults?

    With bitcoin, everyone can see on the blockchain what address the bitcoin is in. Everyone can have the entire copy of the blockchain so they can independently verify it. The only thing you need to trust is the math, and lots of smart people have gone over the code already.

    The reason why gold worked is because they built a layer on top of it. Instead of moving gold, they used paper derivatives. And we all know how derivatives turns out.
     
    #23     Oct 9, 2024
    johnarb likes this.
  4. 'The door to get out will not be big enough', how will bitcoin then co-exist with the USD afterwards ? If the USD blows up like you stated they can't co-exist. So if bitcoin is adopted as a solely existing money mechanism, in a functioning state it will end up in a tyranny because of state control and trace ability. So in this case the coins are never yours, since you need to pay tax also. You need a state because if you don't have one, at some point a better organized external group or country will take over. It's either lawless utopia or hyper efficient police state, and a hyper efficient police state with corrupt officials would be even worse than what we have today. Lawless Utopia can work somewhere up to some point, but in the end you end up with a USB and some digits but no land and no property because it is taken over. The Math in bitcoin can be verified but it can also be verified that human psyche does not change in those regards. If China sees US transforming into Lawless BTC Utopia, do you think they will be happy or sad about it ? This goes for any nation, Saudi, India you name it, a dream come true for them. In reverse its the same thing (One country lawless utopia, other organized). Thats why its nerd money that cannot possibly work long term in any stretch of the imagination, not even speaking about a Carrington event.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2024
    #24     Oct 9, 2024
  5. NoahA

    NoahA

    You make excellent points but I just don't think that the current system can be kept together for much longer when you consider the amount of manipulation necessary. If you look at what made America great, it was the freedom to do anything you wanted and the freedom to be whatever you wanted. Rules and restrictions are only put up as barriers to help the guys on the top. Dictatorship countries exist because the guys at the top make all the rules against the majority of the citizens. You simply cannot have a prosperous country if you enslave your citizens and this is what sticking to the US dollar is. Everyone is horrified at the amount of money being sent to Ukraine and Israel and when people at home need help, the government doesn't give them any. How long does a system like this continue to function before there is a revolution? The markets are at all time highs while you see nothing but people struggling to survive. This is all a very clear signal that the system is broken and it's broken at the money layer.

    If you don't want to believe Bitcoin that is fine, but most people would agree that a change needs to be done. Nobody will of course ever agree on what that change is. And most suggestions require trusting someone else to not screw over the majority. At some point everybody will realize that the key is a system that doesn't require the trust of any party. Eventually I think everyone arrives at Bitcoin even if there are parts of it they don't like.

    Look at the covid crisis. Lots of people supported the smart doctors or other professionals involved. And now it's coming out, piece by piece, that it was nothing but lies perpetuated to control people and doctors making too much money to push vaccines that didn't even work. The trust, for the smart people who can see it, has been completely broken. I see no way forward to rebuild society other than a system that doesn't require trusting any party. I also think it's only a matter of time until entire countries realize that using dollars for exchange means you are trusting one side and most people don't want to play that game anymore. The only fair system is one that nobody controls, and once again, that is Bitcoin.
     
    #25     Oct 9, 2024
    johnarb likes this.
  6. If you bought into BTC and are banking on another propulsion upwards because of the current situation then I get that angle, but long term I can only see it as a practical solution in an imaginary world as sung by that guy from the Beatles with the glasses on.
     
    #26     Oct 9, 2024
  7. Why everybody acting like this is something new? Retail's been buying Bitcoin and leveraging to buy more Bitcoin for years... How do you think I got my 2008 Lambo? About time the dummies caught on.... Where were they when this was 3K or less? All the financial f****** schooling and they're too stupid to see this opportunity.

    By the way, there was an article describing this phenomenon where generational fortunes are devaluing at an exponential rate relative to bitcoin. This is essentially the same concept because by using Bitcoin you will outperform inflation and interest rates on any debts and the principle... Kind of like real estate on steroids.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2024
    #27     Oct 9, 2024
  8. Lets say that the US dollar collapses. Why would you as a country buy into a heavily distributed system, and be the next sucker buying the ATH and make the Winklevosses and the nerd crew rich, since the level of distribution is skewed towards the few having the largest share in terms of percentage, and this trend has only increased since btc inception ? If money is power than that little crew that has been forming for 15 years will have all the power in your country. Why is it not better for the people to create a fiat system out of thin air starting from scratch with strict price controls and wage regulations just like that and have a functioning society ? It is already done and it has already worked however countries go to war over this stuff. Bitcoin creates a sterile traceable trustlessness hyper police state society where you will sign off a veto to be dominated the largest holders or on a larger timefrime get dominated by a trust based larger entity.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2024
    #28     Oct 10, 2024
  9. Because the ceo thinks he was hired to actually turn profits as a company and not lean into the meme.... They could probably do better if they just turned every brick and mortar location into a subway franchise. :)
     
    #29     Oct 10, 2024
  10. NoahA

    NoahA

    Everyone who gets into bitcoin is unhappy about the distribution and the price they are getting. I heard about it when it was nothing. I really thought about buying at $100 in 2012, but figured its only for drugs. I could have bought at the Covid lows at $4k. But I didn't learned enough about it to see the light.

    There is nothing wrong with the distribution because everyone had the chance to either mine early, or buy early. There were no special distribution rights to "insiders". If you believe that Bitcoin will take over the world, then you are still early! There are more millionaires in China than 21 million, and yet, there will only ever be 21 million coins. If just 1 million people today decided they want to buy 1 BTC at $60k, it would be impossible to source, unless the price went much higher.

    If this is what you think then you don't understand bitcoin. Yes, it is traceable, and lots of people argue that bitcoin needs more privacy. And as it evolves, I'm sure its coming. But as for being dominated by larger holders, this is simply impossible. Nobody has power over the network just because they own more. This is very much unlike the current system.

    I don't understand what you are talking about with a police state. If anything, fiat is what is so controlled. All these banks needs to do KYC, can free accounts, etc. And yet, the people who actually launder money aren't even caught or prosecuted. With enough money, you can get away with anything, but if you're a smaller guy, they go after you. And the fact that they can freeze whoever they want out of the system is a major problem.

    I would say that the distribution is getting wider and wider. I didn't have any bitcoin until 2021, and I'm sure many more people bought their first chunk after me. Trump apparently owns some, and RFK Jr. bought a bunch for his kids a while back. You can damn well bet that the Blackrock CEO is also a major holder, whereas he might not have been just a couple of years ago. What do you think will happen if after all the elite get their share, and then announce this to the world? Or when another nation state adopts Bitcoin? You're going to come back and complain that $500k is too high because you could have bought for $60k.

    Even if you never buy any, just the fact that there is competition to the fiat system means that everyone will benefit from a more fair system. When the population uses a currency that the government cannot print, this means the government will be forced to work for the people as opposed to against the people.
     
    #30     Oct 10, 2024
    johnarb likes this.