If edge is hard to get, why traders keep trading?

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by OddTrader, Jun 24, 2009.

  1. You're telling me.

    One randon ticket a week for 14 year (15 next month) and not a single winner. Ain't that some crap. Even a $4 winner would have been nice.

    I buy one as a reminder why gambling is a waste of resources.
     
    #41     Jun 24, 2009
  2. Please, do not separate edge, risk and money management and discipline. They are all-inclusive. Only very novice traders make this type of mistake.

    I repeat here what I posted on another thread:

    Trading profitably is all about having an edge.

    The term "edge" includes:

    (1) A way of timing entries and exits so that the resulting expectancy is a positive number of sufficient magnitude

    (2) Proper position sizing so that the risk of ruin is minimized

    (3) Proper capitalization so that an effective risk and money management method can be put to work

    (4) Discipline and emotional stability

    95% of traders lack one or more of the above. Most lack (3) and (4). Nobody will disclose his edge unless he is crazy. So forget about getitng information about (1) anywhere.

    ....
     
    #42     Jun 24, 2009
  3. What do you mean by saying "the resulting expectancy is a positive number of sufficient magnitude".
     
    #43     Jun 24, 2009
  4. the only way to achieve positive expectancy is modeling the market biases and long term structure.

    TA or any other similar retail-based mystical predictive approaches will never provide an edge because <b>the market is NOT predictable.</b>

    among other, INFLATION is one of the most powerful and widely available biases that can used by any trader to achieve positive expectancy.

    so, an edge is not difficult to find but understanding what could be an edge and how to to use it is what seems to blow most trader's minds.
     
    #44     Jun 24, 2009
  5. r4Nd.m

    r4Nd.m

    Excellent post, thank you.
     
    #45     Jun 24, 2009
  6. Absolutely correct but it is methodical.
     
    #46     Jun 24, 2009
  7. dozu888

    dozu888

    the understanding of this is an edge.

    Why is it methodical?
    How is it methodical?
    Is it methodical at doing what?

    This goes back to one of my earlier post about the understanding of the auction market.

    If you read the above and you feel clueless... you are not alone. more than 95% of the ETers will have no clue either.

    So don't cry.
     
    #47     Jun 24, 2009
  8. More word games from the professor. I wouldn't pay much attention to the illogical, logical method.

    the flat earth society puts forth compelling literature defending their beliefs. the edge claimed by the prof falls into this same tricky verbage and subtrefuge techniques.

    come on Prof, post some calls or trades before the fact....

    regards, surf


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society
     
    #48     Jun 24, 2009

  9. nonsense. word games
     
    #49     Jun 24, 2009
  10. indexer

    indexer

    Quantitative traders know what their edge is through testing historical data. They know which patterns or programs are showing promise. Of course they don't know if they have a real edge until they start making consistent money.

    A discretionary trader usually does not know what their edge is because it is a combination of the mind, the gut and the instinct reacting to patterns and other information. They only know they have an edge if they are making consistent money. The TA they use cannot be measured because out of 10 similar patterns, they may only take two. And their bet size may vary or their stop may vary depending on the trade - traditional money management is dynamic.

    For quants their edge could disappear overnight if the market changes. All that work and money down the drain. The rigidity of their systems is their weakness as it is hard to tell the difference between a draw down and the end of your edge.

    Discretionary traders adapt to changing markets better, but their weakness is maintaining a peak mental state that is not disrupted by lack of focus, lack of confidence, over confidence, emotions etc., which can discombobulate one's mental machine.

    The bottom line is, if the quant method is your game you can find an edge through testing, but you will only know if your edge is real when you are making money. For a discretionary trader, you will only know if you have an edge if you are making money. If you are discretionary, don't waste time worrying about what your edge is - just make money or die trying.
     
    #50     Jun 24, 2009