Ok- so anyone reading through forums about prop firms knows that there is a ton of debate about how they should carry on business (if at all) and as soon as a specific firm is mentioned it turns into a senseless screaming match that every poster is a shill, the firm is full of scammers and anyone who would do business with that firm must be an absolute moron. Furthermore, it seems that the real point of contention is whether the firm should be charging money or taking a capital deposit. Sometimes people say that anyone who does not want to trade their own money should find a different career while others say if you're not paid a salary and giving up money to begin you must be a moron. In addition to this, there is a lot of debate on how the firms themselves treat their traders. Is there any way we can have a civil discussion about a) capital deposits / training fees b) ideal buying power c) firm commissions d) environment and any other points that are recurring points of contention in the prop shop firms and can we have some valuable input about what you've experienced in your careers working with prop firms or being an independent trader? If you've worked at a prop shop feel free to list off the good and the bad that you've experienced (maybe we should stay away from naming the specific firms to prevent people from screaming YOURE A SHILL, it's really ridiculous.) Looking forward to an intelligent and helpful discussion, cheers !
I am with an affiliate trading company that keeps very low key and doesn't get caught up in the "exposure" part of the business. I enjoy this because I know they are real and don't need to advertise or spam any site to get attention. All their business is referral based. All the prop shops that need to put out job listings, spam forums and pay for advertisements crack me up.
You hear a lot of backlash against prop firms because people often confuse prop firms for day trading training programs. If you have a profitable track record or a PhD in a quantitative field, and can pass all credit, employment, educational, criminal, and social media background checks, you can find a position trading with a salary and a bonus. The current firm I'm trading with does not sell any education products but does offer fully-backed and trader-backed programs. Whichever route you choose to go, you'll have to understand the risks and consequences to both. Different traders prefer different prop models that cater to their style and choose the best firm FOR THEM. The harsh reality seems to me that if it's blatantly obvious that nobody is willing to take risk on new traders, doesn't that indicate that there isn't much in terms of return for the firm if they institute a model where they train for free and then keep the trader. Do you really think that off giving you a 100k trading account that your returns will be so tremendous it will offset all the loses the firm has accumulated in terms of recruiting, training, rent, expenses, exposing their strategy, etc? You also have to understand that prop firms get TONS AND TONS of calls and emails from people who have little to no experience and want to trade firm capital. I mean, when researching a lawyer or doctor or any other professional, you don't take the risk on the young doctor fresh out of school, do you? You go to a professional with years of experience and prop firms exercise the same thought process when investing capital that their livelihood depends on. If you have the record, education, proof of consistency, etc. you'll get a salary and a bonus. If you want to be a self-employed trader and trade your own ideas, NOBODY will just hand you capital to trade with just to throw shit on the wall and see if it sticks. That's just the business and if you want to stick around for any extended period of time, you'll have to learn that this is the reality of how business works. Firms are in business to make as much profits as possible with minimal risk, not to expose themselves to extremely risky speculation. Prop firms are private organizations. They don't have the resources large banks have (i.e. customers money) because a firm is compromised of individuals like you and I who have their hard-earned money at stake. Any private company will hire based on the ROI of the employee, which is why organizations do intensive background checks on potential candidates. They want to limit risk and are looking mainly for profits. The same goes with any firm. How they conduct their business is up to them and you have use your discretionary and make sure you do whats in your best interest. Any firm's interest is their own interests, not whats in one persons best interest. This is true in every business in every industry across the globe.
When I first got interested in trading, I would read all the threads here on prop firms and how horrible they are because of the deposits and capital needed. As I learned more and more about this business, I've realized all these people are just complainers who want everything handed to them easily. These kind of people who think that most prop firms are scams are the same people who say that poker is not beatable and it is all luck. Anyone with any intelligence knows that poker is actually a game of skill. Anyone who thinks that a firm will just risk 100% capital on someone who has never traded in their life is ridiculous. I would bet that 90% of the posters on here don't even trade.
I think so too!! I pretty much automatically dismiss anyone who frequently posts between the hours of 8am-4pm monday-friday
Surprising that this thread hasn't received more responses. Elite traders been pretty dead lately too. Sigh