Ice age data bolsters greenhouse gas, warming link

Discussion in 'Politics' started by futurecurrents, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. jem

    jem

    in a comment ...


    Philip Bradley says:
    April 7, 2012 at 11:14 pm
    Note how the Younger Dryas shows up clearly in the temperature proxies but merely causes CO2 levels to flatten. Thats persuasive that rising temperatures cause rising CO2 levels. When temperatures fell during the YD, CO2 just stopped rising.

    This is the point I made in the last thread – the presence of the Younger Dryas makes the initiation of the present interglacial fair game for this kind of AGW trickery, since – as you point out, temperatures rose twice, while CO2 rose only once. The resultant smearing in the time direction of temperature proxies (assisted by the huge variability and error in such proxies) allows Skakun et al. to get away with this conjuring trick. Its enough to allow the MSM e.g. BBC to crow that this powerful skeptical argument – temp rise predating CO2 rise – has been falsified, when it clearly has not.

    It is curious how CO2 flatlined during the Younger Dryas.
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/07/shakun-redux-master-tricksed-us-i-told-you-he-was-tricksy/


    -----

    This paper “Global Warming preceded by increasing CO2…” in Nature
    magazine and propagated by the BBC achieves this aim by:
    1. Dishonest and absurd selection and lumping together of data for
    different hemispheres which behave differently using the natural
    delays in the North to HIDE the rises in the South which preceded
    and drove CO2 out of the sea.
    2. Delusional interpretation of their own concocted data to brazenly
    argue absurdity.
    “The publication of this paper is a monument to the corrupt, secret,
    unaccountable ‘peer-review’ process which dominates modern science and if
    Nature magazine has a shred of support for evidence–based science they would
    withdraw it forthwith. The paper is Dangerous because it is being used by the
    CO2 sect and its adherents in governments as a religious tome to justify CO2
    tax robbery and the holding back of world development”. Links:


    http://www.weatheraction.com/docs/WANews12No20.pdf

    That papers has more...

    Extensive studies (2002) of The phase relationships between Antarctic and Greenland Climate records (3) show that the two
    time series have a fundamentally different nature and while Greenland/Arctic LAGS about 1600 years after temperature
    rises in the Antarctic/Southern ocean mathematical analysis alone cannot be sure which is the driver because of the quasi
    periodic nature of the data which does not rule out (even if it is less convincing) the Arctic being the driver. However the
    authors Steig and Alley point out that “rapid Greenland warmings almost always occur at times when Antarctica is
    already warming”.
    This is consistent with Antarctic changes being the driver and
    facts of the structure of the world make that a necessity.
    The Antarctic temperatures are a measure of the temperature
    of the surrounding largest water mass in the world - the
    Southern ocean and the south halves of the Pacific, Indian and
    Atlantic Oceans. When this warms CO2 is slowly released
    (and note the oceans hold 50 times more CO2 than the air)
    with a delay of about 800 years (Pto for slide 7 of
    http://www.weatheraction.com/docs/WANews11No5a.pdf ). General
    Southern and equatorial ocean and land warming continues
    and the Arctic (Greenland) warms up rapidly later in some
    triggering process (eg perhaps involving Gulf stream shifts).
    By lumping together the North and South hemispheres
    (favouring North) the authors (Shakun et al) of the Nature
    piece conceal the physical sequence of events and construct a
    data set which they claim shows their average world
    temperature might lag CO2 changes (although their own
    graphs don’t show that).
    Their average data set HAS NO PHYSICAL MEANING.
    It is a trick to ‘hide the rise’ of the Southern Ocean. The
    logic of their position is that the whole of the Antarctic and
    Southern Oceans warm up in response to increases in CO2
    which have yet to take place 800 years in the future!
     
    #81     Jun 11, 2012
  2. Arnie

    Arnie

    Jem,


    Thanks for posting that.

    I think we may see a retraction from Nature Mag. I cant believe so called scientists would stoop to something like that.
     
    #82     Jun 11, 2012
  3. Ricter

    Ricter

    You are relying on scientists for that very information.
     
    #83     Jun 11, 2012
  4. China and India with no mandatory emissions cap under the Kyoto Protocol. Somehow that doesn't present a problem to the GW fringe groups.
    Only America is bad for not supporting regualtions that only America will have to follow tells me the whole emissions deal is a scam.
     
    #84     Jun 11, 2012
  5. Ricter

    Ricter

    China's environmental and labor movements are growing fast, faster than ours ever did. (They are standing on the shoulders of giants.) : )
     
    #85     Jun 11, 2012
  6. Arnie

    Arnie

    And they just can't wait to put their country at an economic disadvatage by adopting job killing carbon limits.
     
    #86     Jun 11, 2012
  7. Ricter

    Ricter

    Have a look at the pic Cap'n posted. What's more "killing"?
     
    #87     Jun 11, 2012
  8. ===========

    Thank you Capt Obvious;
    i like sarcasm sometimes.

    I heard on the news recently China told the US State Dept to stop monitoring/broadcasting its air quality.US State Dept gets one right, refuses to comply.

    I have seen China gov suprise us with the truth sometimes.China news reoporter asked the Chinese gov, ''why did you change the name from swine flu to a numbered flu??''. The Chinese official smiled:) & said pork is big business, ''next question'':D

    Same reason the climate change scammers changed to that name ;
    from global warming, to climate change.LOL:D
     
    #88     Jun 11, 2012
  9. jem

    jem

    comment to that yahoo article.

    Amazon is so good at predicting customer demands that when I ordered a travel book on China it gave me recommendations for gas masks
     
    #89     Jun 11, 2012
  10. Ricter

    Ricter

    The presence of water complicates how and when the effects are distributed, but at the end of the day CO2 still causes warming far far more than orbital/solar variations do. Night side of Mercury = -185C avg.
     
    #90     Jun 11, 2012