IB's chat service is useless: question about algos

Discussion in 'Interactive Brokers' started by tonyf, Sep 10, 2021.

  1. tonyf

    tonyf

    as objective as they come really.
     
    #11     Sep 11, 2021
  2. tonyf

    tonyf

    Just to be clear, will you be classified as a pro if you send out 16 orders to 16 exchanges?

    I am guess that not all 16 exchanges are on par. How can one filter out trading volumes for a specific option by exchange to see which exchanges are the most active and target them exclusively?
     
    #12     Sep 11, 2021
  3. mskl

    mskl

    if you send 390 orders per day over the course of one month - then you will be designated as a PRO. Sending 16 x the amount of orders will get you to that designation pretty quickly. And if you want to see "bad fills" - become a Professional

    You could filter the Exchanges but you have to understand that 80% + of all marketable orders (orders that might trade against your limit order) are bought by HFT's (wholesalers). They will trade against the order themselves on an Exchange where you are not bidding. And even if you are bidding on all 16 Exchanges - there is about a 70% chance that you still won't get a fill when an opposite marketable order hits the market. This is the result of price improvement rules. The HFT's have the technology to penny your bid. So say, you are $8.10 bid on 16 Exchanges and another customer enters an order to sell at $8.10. When this happens, there is a small halt (for about 50 ms: one that you possibly can't recognize) and the HFT's/market makers have the ability to step in front of your order during this halt and bid $8.11.

    Bottom line is that there is virtually zero customer to customer trading that takes place in the option markets. At least not at prices that benefit one of those customers.

    But honestly, you shouldn't just take my word on this. I would suggest you experiment and try different things. You will learn a great deal which will help you determine the correct path in this marketplace. If you understand the market structure today - then you will find trading is much easier in this marketplace.

    Personally I use to get quite angry at some of these anti-competitive rules. About 10 years ago I decided to stop fighting for what is fair and simply take what they give you....
     
    #13     Sep 11, 2021
  4. tonyf

    tonyf

    Thank you very much for your thoughts.

    I hear from some that splitting orders might not help unless some of said orders hit Philly where we get no rebate, but they get a lot of customer flow. C2 and the others with higher rebates, get very little flow I am told.

    Have you noticed any ot this?
     
    #14     Sep 12, 2021
  5. mskl

    mskl

    It depends on the security but as you can see from the data below - the volume is distributed relatively evenly overall. Keep in mind that some volumes can be overstated for a variety of reasons. for example the PHLX volume is overstated because a large portion (maybe as much as 30%) is BS dividend volume. This volume (large blocks) is crossed from one PHLX member to another the day prior to x-dividend. Take note of all the deep call spreads that trade at parity on the PHLX floor on these days. This is reflected in the lower amount of trades relative to their volume. Also note that not every security has 16 Exchanges.

    Aug 2021 Volume

    Total volume approximately 388 million
    Data (Volume: # of trades)

    PHLX: 52.3 million : 7 million trades
    ARCA: 52.1 million: 10.8 million trades
    CBOE: 38.8 million: 7 million trades
    NSDQ: 33.7 million: 6.4 million trades
    BATS: 31.8 million: 5.3 million trades
    AMEX: 25.9 million: 4 million trades
    BOX: 24.2 million: 4.1 million trades
    MIAX: 24.1 million: 5.1 million trades
    EMLD: 23.8 million: 5.2 million trades
    ISE: 16.8 million: 2.9 million trades
    C2: 15.1 million: 3 million trades
    EDGX: 14.4 million: 3 million trades
    MPRL: 12.1 million: 2.3 million trades
    GEM: 11.5 million: 2.2 million trades
    MCRY: 7.1 million: 1.8 million trades
    NOBO: 4.3 million: 1 million trades
     
    #15     Sep 12, 2021
    YuriWerewolf and tonyf like this.
  6. Fain

    Fain

    LOL. About as objective as the "best way to solve conflict in Palestine/Israel and what flavour of icecream is superior in Taste".

    Customer service isn't there to help with your own research. You are self-directed. For those you will either need full service or someone to mentor you, OR measure the results testing different algos.
     
    #16     Sep 12, 2021
  7. tonyf

    tonyf

    Alright dude. None of what you said makes sense but thanks for sharing.

    P.s. the Israel conflict is already solved.
    Best selling ice-cream is vanilla. Superior taste is reflected in the price of Madagascar beans.
     
    #17     Sep 12, 2021
  8. tonyf

    tonyf

    Source is OCC I am guessing? Can one breakdown those stats at the security/option level?
     
    #18     Sep 12, 2021
  9. Fain

    Fain

    likewise
     
    #19     Sep 12, 2021
  10. mskl

    mskl

    yes - OCC

    One could breakdown the stats per security with the right data vendor.
     
    #20     Sep 12, 2021