concerning the 4:1 issue: i guess the reason why this is a part of the new rule could be, that they want to compensate the liquidity that gets lost by kicking the little players out of the game. or just because they can show at least one positive aspect on the new rules. anyway - 2:1 margin for trading stocks should be enough. for example: if you had an account with $20K and traded with 2:1 so far - and did fine - and you come up now with $25K and keep on trading 2:1 - where's the problem?
silvius sez "What would happen if you had a bad year and made only say 100% return on your capital??? " Hey bro, I'll give you all you want if you guarantee me that in ONLY doubles in a BAD year. You da man!
I would interested to know if anyone on this thread is trading with full time with less than $25,000 account and making 75K+ after taxes. If it is possible, I may reconsider quiting my full time job!
IB is a bit conservative (and a bit quirky-look at IB's chairman's view on trailing stops). Give them time and if everthing works out, we will see them take steps to remain competitive. The only thing that bothers me is that they are not totally reliant on the retail side (they have a huge institutional following) as opposed to CyberTrader, etc.
Silvius, I started several years ago with around $20k and was living on McDonald's level earnings for around a year. That original $20k was generating me profits of as high as $30k a day during the bull market, and I have been able to generate a few very profitable days this summer, including several $10k days. All of this came from a measly $20k life savings from a few years ago. If you view trading as a business, I think you will understand that good things take time to develop. Had I started with $20k today, I would not be given the flexibility to trade on margin as a result of these rules. I feel very bad for all the newer people. Please do not try and be smug about things. Some of the people with less than $25k are being denied the chance to earn many multiples of what you are getting in your $75k job, if they stick at it for a few years and treat it as a business.
I think it is OK when IB is risk challenged. I feel better for my money there. Yes, the new rule is not fair. Life is not fair. The big players liked us very much during the bull run because we helped them. Now, because they know this poor market could be in trouble for a few years, they'd better have us elsewhere. It is going to be difficult for newbies. I am sorry you did not start earlier, while it was much easier and took less money. But that the way it is. Stop whinning, try to find the money. Life is not fair and you don't accomplish much by crying each day on this board.
Candletrader, I was not trying to be âsmugâ, but merely suggest that it is not prudent to try to make a living by day trading on a account size of less then $25,000. If a trader was confident that he/she could pull 75K out of the market every year, than coming up with 25K should be a minimal issue (home equity loans, cash advance on credit cards, sell your car, work a second job, etc). At 75K per year you can repay your loans in 5 monthsâ¦..Correct? The point that was trying to make is that quitting your full time job to day trade in hope of earning the same livelihood is just as risky as borrowing 25K in order to qualify as a pattern trader. So why is the 25K rule being viewed as the major hurdle?
LionSec is the closest to reality. This is the end of the game. Put hey thats their problem too, you are going to see volume contraction of 10-15% (on a permanent basis) over the next few months. This sounds like a broken record I know (my other postings), but most of us as Active but Smaller traders are doomed. WE HAD NO LOBBY WHEN THE CHIPS WERE DOWN. PERIOD. Many will find there execution frozen and a Popup advising them of their "suspension" and to verbally contact the trade desk some AM. Only because you had "only" $18,000.00 in your account and that STOP that was executed in JNPR yesterday put you over the top of your weekly "daytrade allowance". In other words you will also be penalized for being a SOUND Trader. You guys and girls better wake up and plan accordingly.
oOoO"AP:NEW YORK,N.Y.Aug.24,2001;Manhattan Bureau:Mary Jo White,N.Y.Southern District Asst. United States Attorney has announced the most sweeping arrests and conspiracy charges for securities fraud in U.S. history this AM. Seventy Eight people have been charged, fifty seven apprehened so far. Sue Herera was the most surprised as she was collared at the Gristede's all night market on Madison Ave. where she had gone to pick up additional midnight snacks before supposedly launching some early AM London Liffe Single Stock Futures Sell Programs. Ron Insana was picked up by the Gatehouse at his lavish Pocantico Hills estate where he gone to hound the night watchman on and overdue margin call for Ciena that he felt might reflect on him. Two other conspirators Joe Kernen and Art Hogan were arrested at P.J. Clarke's on 53rd and Third Ave. in Manhattan where they had been swilling beers all evening. The bartender said Hogan got red in the face and yelled Dow 36,000 every fifteen minutes or so. Earlier in the evening he had gotten into a pushing and shoving match with famed short seller Robert Wilson, the bouncer recalled. They were a difficult collar and had to be led away in ankle restraints and handcuffs. Kernen pleaded with the paddy wagon driver to please let him go on his own recognizance, and he was seen whispering into the driver's ear that he "knew of a little bio-tech company operating out of the back of a shopping center donut shop in Compton, California that a has cure for cancer and herpes with more cures on the way". Mary Jo White felt the charge most applicable to them was General and Gross Acts of Stupidity. Surprisingly Joe Bittapaglia was not named in the indictment, White said "we just feel sorry for him, he's obviously a misguided individual who needs all the counseling he can get. Nobody could be that dumb and pass a Series 7 exam". Abby Joseph Cohen was tabbed at Central Park's tony Tavern On The Green where she had just sponsored a Bar Mitzvah for her nephew that reputedly had set her back a whopping $200,000.00. "Thats chump change for me Mac" she snarled at assembled reporters,"plus I was only taking orders" she spit at one reporter. The Bar Mitzvah had a S&P 2500 theme one guest indicated. Not far away Frank Zarb and Richard Grasso were apprehened at swank Le Bernadin where they were dining with their wives and assorted hangers on. Grasso being led away in cuffs was heard snarling to his bodyguard Bruno "make sure those stooges are applauding on the Visitor's Gallery at 4.00 or I'll send you back to one of Gotti's crews in Queens. I'll beat this rap, you'll see. We always do". Frank Zarb outgoing head of the Nasdaq with a $7,000,000.00 payoff remarked as he got into the Squad Car," Hey I'll be at my usual table at 21 for lunch,you can bet on that pal, we got some great new rules coming down later this month and next that pins this whole magillah on the little guys, a genius down in D.C. came up with a great name for the Frame, its called Pattern Day Trading, you just got to love the ring of that, kinda like Serial Killer, sounds like Ted Bundy coming through your bedroom window with a butcher knife, its enough to give anyone the Willies. What a bunch a jerks the little guys are" he went on to remark," any jerk that does homework three to four hours a day, studies charts endlessly, subscribes to services,lives,eats, breathes Trading for their whole life deserves this FrameUp.What a punch of stiffs. They are all going to get what they deserve". More arrests are expected to continue during the early AM hours. Also 358 floor brokers and clerks along with clearing firm receptionists have been named in the Indictment. "The little people will sing first,they always do" White remarked,"because they always do the time first. It's the pattern day traders I feel sorry for, there's tens of thousands of them in this hopper too". Jon Corzine former Goldman Sachs head who bought a U.S. Senate Seat for $53,000,000.00 with suckers money yelled out of his Georgetown townhouse bedroom window "don't bug me about this anymore"to assembled reporters below " I've moved on to the big leagues boys and girls, I'm not in that racket anymore". zzzxo!!ooOO Whew thanks for waking me up you won't believe the dream I just had, the day's the day I have to shut down my quote service for September and notify all my other services that I'm packing it in. I'm going on a long, long vacation and I probaly won't be back.
Nothing is over til we decide it is!! :eek: Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL NO!!! : Who's with me? *************** What's with some of you? To anyone who thinks it's over, I'd suggest reading up a bit more on some of the best traders of the past hundred years. Jesse Livermore made (and lost) millions after leaving a bucket shop and learning how to read the tape. Nicholas Darvas made (and lost) millions from getting quotes from the paper the next day while travelling around the world as a dancer. I don't need to remind that millions were harder to come by back then. I'd further suggest reading this very board and hearing some stories of folks who saved hard just to get to the U.S. and be allowed to trade at all...those who came from illiquid markets and (seriously) oppressive governments. We were born in the candy store folks, the shelves are just getting raised a bit...you're going to have to be creative if you want to play. Nothing is going to get handed to you. This is called adversity, start with what you have and get to work. You'll be a much better trader in the end.