IB stops (new question, I promise)

Discussion in 'Retail Brokers' started by JPB, Nov 30, 2001.

  1. JPB

    JPB

    I hate to start another IB stop order thread, but I have been chatting with IB customer service for 45 minutes and they just don't understand the question.

    I know about all of the bid 2 times/ask 2 times stuff. I just need to know if it makes a difference which Exchange I route my stop order to. If I route to ISLAND (for example), will it only get triggered if ISLAND ask hits my stop election price twice, or will it trigger on the any ask (ARCA, MM, etc.)? I think it only triggers on the ISLAND.

    I have been using BEST_ECN for most of my orders, including stop orders, and watching them sit while the ask moves though my stop election price several times, and through my stop limit if I have it too close. I am pretty sure this is why, but wanted something definite. If so, could this be why some of the others have been complaining about stops not triggering?

    Thanks,

    Johnny
     
  2. ktm

    ktm

    I researched this very thoroughly a while back. The exchange does not matter. If you are watching an official "time and sales" ticker, when the 2nd consecutive qualified print hits, you should go green.

    I would be glad to go over the prints with you in your particular situation if you like. I haven't used stops lately so I could not say if they are still functioning properly. We also discussed (on another thread) the inept nature of IB's chat staff. I used them several times and was never able to accomplish anything. It's best to call.
     
  3. Turok

    Turok

    JPB, I have been using IB stop flavor orders extensively for the last month or so (executed at least 30 times just today). As a slowly recovering scalper I have begun using them more and more. After reading several negative discussions on this board regarding them over the last year or so I have been pleasantly surprised with their reliability. I have not had a single failure over the last couple months and hundreds of executions. Judging from what I hear on this board, IB must have greatly improved their act on the trigger reliablity issue.

    A: The Naz stops are triggered by a combination of prints and NBBO. The routing method will not matter to the trigger (though it may well matter to your execution)

    B: With SuperSoes as currently implemented, I can't think of a reason to use BEST_ECN rather than BEST. Using BEST_ECN, if the stop is triggered and the ECNs have run away, you will either: 1: get whacked with price *unimprovement* if you have used a stop order, or 2: not get executed at all if you use a stop limit and the ECNs have run outside your limit. Either way, BEST will whack SuperSoes and provide you with access to this large pool of liquidity.

    C: KTM, IBs Naz stop order logic doesn't require two prints to trigger (perhaps it used to). It requires one print and two bids/asks confirming the print.

    JB
     
  4. ddefina

    ddefina

    Remember that IB is backwards when it comes to the Bid and Ask triggering your stop price. For a Sell Stop, it's the ASK not the Bid that must hit your price, and vice-versa for Buy Stops. So this could be another reason your stop seems to get passed by.

    Reliability has been good the last two months for me as well.
     
  5. JPB

    JPB

    Turok,
    I just started using them. Usually I enter a stop limit away from my actual stop as a "just in case" computer down, etc. Today is the first time I started letting them trigger just to make sure they worked how I thought. One triggered when I expected it to, the other sat as it went through my limit price. Granted, I had my limit pretty close ( I think it was about .15 away), but I don't think I ever saw the spread that wide. I can't say for sure that there was an ECN that close, but could swear I saw the ask and the prints there and it not go green. Anyway, I also started using BEST some today for normal executions and it seemed to work very well. I need to review the way it works. I was under the impression it could get stuck at a MM or on ARCA because it didn't use fill or kill. Maybe that was before SuperSOES. Could someone tell me for sure?

    Also, after close to an hour (I actually posted my question here originally while I was in the middle of talking to them), IB chat told me that the stop is triggered by the bid/ask on the exchange you route your order to. I don't necessarily believe them, but that's what they said. I think I will do some testing on Monday. Maybe try 2 of the same stop going to different exchanges and see if they trigger at the same time. Has anyone tried this and want to save me a couple bucks?

    Thanks,

    Johnny
     
  6. JPB

    JPB

    ddefina,
    I did know that, I just wasn't watching close enough to see who was at the ask (it was a sell stop) when it triggered. I wasn't watching it that close because I my first one seemed to trigger perfectly (earlier in the day). I wasn't staring at the level 2 / TOS looking for ECNs, etc. I just saw the price go by and then was caught kind of dumbfounded staring at my stop order waiting for it to go green, and when it did the price was past my limit. I'll watch closer next time and figure out who is where and see if it matches where it was routed or not.

    Thanks anyway,

    Johnny
     
  7. Turok

    Turok

    >Maybe that was before SuperSOES. Could
    >someone tell me for sure?

    Yes, I can tell you for sure. That was before SuperSoes.

    >IB chat told me that the stop is triggered
    >by the bid/ask on the exchange you route
    >your order to.

    Unfortunately, many of the fine contributors on this list know much more than the typical chat representative.

    JB
     
  8. ktm

    ktm

    Turok,

    You are right, I erred in my previous post. I should have said that 2 consecutive qualified BIDs (or asks) need to hit the tape. I have had stops trigger without an actual trade occurring. It has been a while, and I know this stuff changes from time to time. I've seen it since I trade more light volume issues. At least that's the way it used to work. If you're running them now, you know more than I.