IB Sticky Market Orders

Discussion in 'Interactive Brokers' started by Avid_Consumer, Apr 14, 2005.

  1. i'm having the same slight delay with marketable limits as well compared to a month or so ago. not long delays like the mkt orders, but tending on the late side recently compared to most of the last 2 years.
    #11     Apr 14, 2005
  2. below is the link and information you asked for...hope it helps


    "Affiliate Relationships: IB's affiliate Timber Hill LLC makes markets in stocks and acts as a specialist or market maker on all U.S. option exchanges. Other IB affiliates worldwide, including Timber Hill Europe, also act as market makers on global exchanges. As noted above, for non-directed IB customer stock orders routed using IB’s Smart Routing system, if an IB affiliate is willing to provide an execution at the best available posted price or better for that stock, IB may send the order to its affiliate for an immediate automatic execution.

    Likewise, if an IB affiliate is a specialist or market maker on an exchange that has posted or is willing to match the best bid or offer for an option contract for which an IB customer has placed an order, and another exchange is also posting the same best bid or offer, IB will break the tie by sending the order to the exchange where the IB affiliate is acting as specialist or market maker.
    >>>>>>> IB’s Smart Routing system is designed generally to maximize the opportunity for IB’s affiliates, including Timber Hill LLC and Timber Hill Europe, to trade against IB customer orders,<<<<<<<<
    at or better than the best available posted price and consistent with applicable exchange and regulatory rules.

    As specialist on various options exchanges, Timber Hill LLC may be responsible for distributing payment for order flow that is generated in its assigned options classes, depending on the design of the applicable exchange’s SEC-approved payment for order flow plan. As much as consistent with these plans, Timber Hill pays such funds to Interactive Brokers. IB, in turn, may route IB customer orders to Timber Hill as described above.

    Additionally, IB itself pays certain other broker-dealers for routing orders to IB, for IB then to execute, generally using IB’s Smart Routing system. The IB Smart Routing system is designed to maximize the likelihood that Timber Hill will trade against these orders, at or better than the best available posted price.

    whoever the IB rep is in here... YOU ARE A HIRED PAWN
    it's not an accusation, it's fact shit for brains...

    #12     Apr 14, 2005
  3. def

    def Sponsor

    Cluseau, I'm happy to discuss this topic. I'd appreciate if you can attempt to keep things civil.

    IBsoft is involved in writing the code and knows how our routing works. For myself, I know how things work as well.

    Timber Hill does NOT get a first look at customer orders. This is a fact and your accusations are 100% incorrect.

    If you route an order to a futures exchange, it goes directly to the futures exchange. Now, let's think about this a bit more logically. Future orders must be novated on the exchange. They execute with price/time priority. Even if Timber Hill saw the order, how can it jump the queue to execute against it?

    Now lets's talk stocks and options. There are 6 US option exchanges. Let's assume all exchanges are showing the best bid. Where would you route the order? We route where we think we can get the best price and most timely fill. If an IB affiliate is showing the BEST price, we route there as we know that the order will be instantly filled and naturally want to participate on the trade. In no way are the fills compromised by routing to a venue where Timber Hill is making the best market.

    Stocks: Orders do get filled by Timber Hill. However, Timber Hill does NOT see customer flow. It is actually the other way around. It is very simple, we take the best bids/offers from all the ECN's and exchanges. We throw in the TMBR internal quote. When a client submits an order, we route to the best price. If TMBR is best price, TMBR gets the fill. TMBR in this way acts like an ECN.

    Hopefully this sheds some light on the topic.

    Back to the original post. If you think there are delays in market orders, please take the opportunity to pass the details to Ibsoft. As many of you know, we are proactive to client input and if there is indeed a problem, I'm certain he'll figure it out.
    #13     Apr 14, 2005
  4. def,

    why don't you post your full name here and i will forward it to the attorney general. he can explain to you how you are deceiving the public with your rational lies.
    the contract speaks louder then your hearsay. if timber is neutral you would not need the inside edge you created and furthermore a special affiliation clause in your customer agreement stating that timber trades against customer orders. and if anyone here believes timber hill is going to improve price for them and not yourself he/she is a bigger schmuck than you.

    you bore me...

    i will not promote your shady firm by posting to you anymore...

    anyone seeking information feel free to PM me about this topic

    #14     Apr 14, 2005
  5. def

    def Sponsor

    read the clause carefully. we simply attempt to get our clients the best price. obviously you have some sour grapes and/or an axe to grind. clients using our services (including many large brokerages routing options via IB), know the fills are second to none. I stand by my statements and our excellent reputation.
    #15     Apr 14, 2005
  6. sprstpd


    Cluseau, instead of complaining, why don't you start hitting TMBR bids and asks and make money off of the liquidity they provide? It is not like TMBR looks at your order and then says "hmmmm.... let's take it!" They are either present on the bid/offer or not - you will know instantaneously with a nearly instantaneous fill. I like having TMBR available for liquidity.
    #16     Apr 14, 2005
  7. Choad


    Promoting hearsay and innuendo as documented "facts" could easily involve a subpoena and court hearing.

    It's foolish to think IB would bother to pull tricky stuff like this, when they are so profitable.

    I wouldn't blame IB and def if they sicked the law dawgs on your sorry ass for defamation and damages.

    Please go back to Yahoo.

    #17     Apr 14, 2005
  8. Holmes


    Have you done a tracert? It is easy to think that it is IB's fault but for all you know it may be an internet delay. It may also be a delay in your firewall.

    I trade from the other side of the world and can have anything up to a two second delay which is totally normal. My strategy has been tested so that I can work with a delay for up to two minutes without affecting profitability.

    If you rely on the execution for your orders for your profitability then I am sorry to say that you have not a sustainable edge.

    #18     Apr 14, 2005
  9. MR.NBBO


    Talk about some seriously sour grapes. Agreed this guy has something going on. Always happy that Def is here.

    That said, I've been at IB for years....and my market orders hang up too, a submission thing, not an execution one, as they hang on TWS or IB servers?, not in the market. This has only occured for me in the last 3-4 months, marketable limits DO execute quicker.

    I'd venture a guess that there is some type of coding algorithim at IB that gets hung up on routing and best price (not neccessarily NBBO, but based on execution stats & liquidity). Looks like a routing check.

    Here's a great example: A market order is a market order right? Not at IB, at least some of the time. Suppose you want to buy 5000 shares at market, 3000 asking $20.00....IB sends a limit often for 3000 buy at $20, and the rest turns into a market order--it's split, as a marketable limit and a true market order. I've seen it only about 15%of the time, but it certainly occurs. Why? customer protection from nasty market fills, I'm sure.

    Is it a bad policy? It's a toss up to me. If your'e in a superfast market, it'll really hurt...otherwise it'll be equal or even may help the customer.

    Almost forgot...experienced the same 2+ second lag on a market order in IB FX today as well (Euro).

    It's across the board on all market orders, by the looks. I'd definately say a coded routing/best execution check that gets hung up.
    #19     Apr 15, 2005
  10. IBsoft

    IBsoft Interactive Brokers

    The FX dealers we have connections to often take 3 seconds to execute.
    #20     Apr 15, 2005