IB refuses to refund Identity Token deposit fee

FanOfFridays · Mar 11, 2008

Quote from 4DTrader:
I am beginning to realize opening an account at IB is 10 times more complex than at Scottrade.
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Sorry, but this is neither correct nor relevant. I have opened multiple accounts at IB and it was as smooth as silk. However, I know how to complete forms correctly and mail documents in a timely manner.

And it's kind of dumb to say 'IB shouldn't even need to use the security device' as you do above. I'm glad they sent me one. I'm glad they're going overboard on the security issue.

IB has its problems. If you don't like them, leave.

stock777 · Mar 11, 2008

I can't believe there are so many dingleberries out there like 4DTrader.

Please, tell me it's just one nut with 100 aliases.

kiwi_trader · Mar 11, 2008

Quote from IBj:

Record straightening time as, of course, there are omitted facts:

December: compliance investigation into account leads IB to determine that the funding activity suggests activity/business that IB does not permit ( the funds are arriving from many different 3rd party locations).

February: IB starts returning funds to the accounts from whence they came. These are 3rd party accounts. Names don't match so there are rejections from the third parties' banks (3rd party money movements are problematic for a variety of operational, AML, and regulatory reasons). It takes 4 months to get all the receiving banks to take the funds properly. The last $150 is withheld because the security device had not been returned.

August: account is force closed by IB compliance department when the remaining liability (token deposit) is written down and the remaining $132.72 is deducted to bring the account to zero

December: device is returned. The account no longer exists so there is no way in the normal systems to recredit the account automatically (remember, we normally dont take the money, we merely reserve it. Un-reserving is built. Un-debiting automatically is not)

March 2 years after this started: here we are.

Post-mortem:
(1) Most organizations define time limits on fulfilling obligations after an event or contractual relationship ends. For example, you have 30 days to complain on your credit card. It seems IB has not have defined a time limit for returning security devices. We will fix that so there aren't such open-ended issues and there is a greater clarity on expectations regarding device return.
(2) There really isn't any department in charge of this. In principle, we should have said "sorry, too late". The device was de-registered (which happens when it is written off as lost/stolen) so it is became an expensive 4 ounce useless paperweight.
(3) We will send back the deposit ($150).
More...

Thanks for the update.

battle river · Mar 11, 2008

Quote from IBj:

Record straightening time as, of course, there are omitted facts:

December: compliance investigation into account leads IB to determine that the funding activity suggests activity/business that IB does not permit ( the funds are arriving from many different 3rd party locations).

lol! what biz are you in ted? half mil acct and you're worried about 150 bucks. someone will break your legs if you dont get it back?
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4DTrader · Mar 11, 2008

Quote from traderNik:

Sorry, but this is neither correct nor relevant. I have opened multiple accounts at IB and it was as smooth as silk. However, I know how to complete forms correctly and mail documents in a timely manner.

And it's kind of dumb to say 'IB shouldn't even need to use the security device' as you do above. I'm glad they sent me one. I'm glad they're going overboard on the security issue.

IB has its problems. If you don't like them, leave.
More...

Why not tell the truth? The invention of "token" is due to stealing from IB accounts. Don't deny the fact that the only purpose of this "token" is to stop stealing. Without stealing, there wouldn't be any need for this "token." Everytime I type "token," it makes me laugh. "Token," what an idiotic idea!

The more you try to hide something, the more obvious it becomes.

It makes me wonder why some posters are so eager to defend IB. Are they, by any chance, employees of IB?

sprstpd · Mar 11, 2008

Quote from 4DTrader:

Why not tell the truth? The invention of "token" is due to stealing from IB accounts. Don't deny the fact that the only purpose of this "token" is to stop stealing. Without stealing, there wouldn't be any need for this "token."
More...

Yes, I agree with you 100% - stopping stealing is bad! Bad IB! Tisk tisk! I want my broker to promote stealing! Where can I go to make this happen? Will close my IB account first thing tomorrow morning. Thanks 4DTrader!

bpcnabe · Mar 11, 2008

Quote from 4DTrader:

It makes me wonder why some posters are so eager to defend IB. Are they, by any chance, employees of IB?
More...

Why is it that all you people who have little or no experience with IB accuse those who like them of being employees?

kiwi_trader · Mar 11, 2008

Quote from IBj:

Record straightening time as, of course, there are omitted facts:

December: compliance investigation into account leads IB to determine that the funding activity suggests activity/business that IB does not permit ( the funds are arriving from many different 3rd party locations).

February: IB starts returning funds to the accounts from whence they came. These are 3rd party accounts. Names don't match so there are rejections from the third parties' banks (3rd party money movements are problematic for a variety of operational, AML, and regulatory reasons). It takes 4 months to get all the receiving banks to take the funds properly. The last $150 is withheld because the security device had not been returned.

August: account is force closed by IB compliance department when the remaining liability (token deposit) is written down and the remaining $132.72 is deducted to bring the account to zero

December: device is returned. The account no longer exists so there is no way in the normal systems to recredit the account automatically (remember, we normally dont take the money, we merely reserve it. Un-reserving is built. Un-debiting automatically is not)

March 2 years after this started: here we are.

Post-mortem:
(1) Most organizations define time limits on fulfilling obligations after an event or contractual relationship ends. For example, you have 30 days to complain on your credit card. It seems IB has not have defined a time limit for returning security devices. We will fix that so there aren't such open-ended issues and there is a greater clarity on expectations regarding device return.
(2) There really isn't any department in charge of this. In principle, we should have said "sorry, too late". The device was de-registered (which happens when it is written off as lost/stolen) so it is became an expensive 4 ounce useless paperweight.
(3) We will send back the deposit ($150).
More...

It's because they're twats. They lose in the markets and try to make up for it by attacking brokers and warm hearted souls like me.

They don't last all that long though. I've been gently pointing out their flaws to such folk for the last 4 or 5 years and none of them last long. Blown accounts. Blown psychologies. The whinging catches up with them in the end.

Tums · Mar 11, 2008

OP: can I give you $150 so that you can close this thread?

4DTrader · Mar 11, 2008

Quote from bpcnabe:

Why is it that all you people who have little or no experience with IB accuse those who like them of being employees?
More...

There is nothing to be ashamed of if you are an IB employee, or a friend of an employee of IB.

What traders need is open discussion about brokers, including IB. There is no need to be over-defensive, unless you have something to hide.

I get an impression that every time a trader questions IB, he is stepping on a nest of wasps and gets stung by these hostile creatures lurking on this forum. I am retreating.