IB customers lose $88m trading WTI crude

Discussion in 'Interactive Brokers' started by ZBZB, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. VAtrader

    VAtrader

    #51     Apr 21, 2020
    creator likes this.
  2. manonfire

    manonfire

    I call bullshit. IB does not allow opening positions on physical settled positions that close to settlement. Post a screenshot.
     
    #52     Apr 21, 2020
    yc47ib likes this.
  3. ajacobson

    ajacobson

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    4/21/20

    May crude oil futures closed yesterday at a negative price: -$37.63 per barrel, down $55.90 from the prior day’s close.

    As is well understood, prices fall when supply exceed demand, but to push prices into negative territory means that this excess supply existed in spades! This happened yesterday for the May 2020 crude oil futures contract, in anticipation of the fact that the contract was scheduled to expire the next day. In retrospect, it’s clear that an “excessive” amount of people who had purchased the May contract had no desire to take physical delivery. They had to get out, and they had to get out soon.

    Posting of negative prices shouldn’t have happened. Futures are a regulated industry, and one aspect of futures regulation is a feature called position limits. The idea is that the integrity of these markets should be protected from prospective excesses on the part of speculators by constraining the number of futures contracts that those speculators can control. It’s a worthy goal, but that goal wasn’t realized yesterday.

    The sharp price drop we saw yesterday reflects the fact that the sizes of the speculative holdings were considerably larger than they should have been allowed to be. Whether that imbalance was due to overly generous speculative position limits or lack of adherence to the limits in place is an open question worthy of further investigation.

    Ira Kawaller
    718-938-7812
    igkawaller@gmail.com
    www.derivativeslitigation.com
    [​IMG]

    Derivatives Litigation Services is dedicated to assisting litigants in cases where derivative contracts are central to the dispute. Please feel free to forward this email to any colleagues or associates who you think might be interested in these services, and thank you for your consideration.
     
    #53     Apr 21, 2020
    comagnum likes this.
  4. maxinger

    maxinger

    This reminded me of myself years ago.

    Price went down. I went to buy.
    Price went down further. I went to buy thinking it is dirt cheap.
    Price went down further. I went to buy more thinking it is really dirt cheap and price would skyrocket soon.
    Price went down further. I went to buy more thinking it is really dirt cheap and price would skyrocket soon.
    Price went down further. I went to buy more thinking it is really dirt cheap and price would skyrocket soon.
    Price went down further. I went to buy more thinking it is really dirt cheap and price would skyrocket soon.



    The next day, I had to top up my account.


    Last 2 days, those who traded with trend should be earning tons of money.

    ---------------
     
    #54     Apr 21, 2020
  5. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

    You nailed IT! :rolleyes:
     
    #55     Apr 22, 2020
  6. ...."shouldn´t, wouldn´t, couldn´t".....this is a "policy goal"...

    Position limits are being enforced on a daily basis by market oversight teams at exchange level.

    I am sure, Ira, you have made inquiries with the market oversight teams at ICE and CME before reaching out to ET members who "could, should, would" need your help, right?

    But we appreciate your effort to sniff out a "market opportunity" for litigators! :sneaky::sneaky::sneaky:
     
    #56     Apr 22, 2020
  7. Obviously the margin requirement should scale up whenever the position size is large relative to volume.

    If you own 1 contract, that's easy to liquidate, so $8000 margin per contract
    If you own 1,000,000 contracts, that's hard to liquidate, so maybe $40,000 margin per contract.

    IB only takes this risk from the big boys so they should only charge the big boys for it.
     
    #57     Apr 22, 2020
  8. Exactly. 8k margin for a product that can sometimes more than 8 points overnight or even intraday isn't much while 36k margin for ES is just dumb, since when has ES ever come remotely close to moving 720 pts in a day? Never?

    This just goes to show that IB doesn't know what they are doing, their risk management algos are completely random and that adds a huge layer of risk for their clients.
     
    #58     Apr 22, 2020
    Hivey and d08 like this.
  9. On Black Monday S&P futures declined 29%. The points are less relevant than the percentage.
     
    #59     Apr 22, 2020
  10. That was before we had circuit breakers.
     
    #60     Apr 22, 2020
    d08 likes this.