IB customers lose $88m trading WTI crude

Discussion in 'Interactive Brokers' started by ZBZB, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. MtrGuy

    MtrGuy




    Hi Angelo,

    Thanks that's quite pertinent.
    As I understand it, according to IB policy, the May 2020 positions were subject to liquidation starting from April 16 if they had not been rolled over by the customer but it doesn't clearly state whether you could initiate positions after that date. The Cutoff time being April 20 19:30 (post fixing), I am not sure whether it goes against their rules.

    However, I don't understand what represents the Long Future Liquidation date (April 17).

    https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=deliveryExerciseActions&p=physical
    upload_2020-4-24_12-39-18.png

    upload_2020-4-24_12-47-32.png

    If someone has a different/clearer understanding of that table, please let me now.
     
    #121     Apr 24, 2020
  2. 329200

    329200

    Does anyone know if May crude ended trading on 4/20 by the cutoff time, what accounted for the volume that was recorded on 4/21, when it traded all the way back up to $13? Were they big institutions or banks? If so it seems like they had the most incentive for what happened because they were still allowed to hold the contracts on 4/21 and was able to close out before expiration.

    By the way below is a screenshot from Thinkorswim showing substantial volume for the contract on the 4/21 nearing expiration.
     
    #122     Apr 24, 2020
  3. qwerty11

    qwerty11

    But the whole discussion is about ICE futures that are financially settled.

    Maybe it has something to do with footnote 1 (i.e. what you show not applicable for margin accounts).
     
    #123     Apr 24, 2020
  4. qwerty11

    qwerty11

    I also don't understand. It was widely discussed that the negative day was the last trading day, but the next day it still seemed to be trading (below and above 0 from what I remembered). Maybe an oil expert can chime in...
     
    #124     Apr 24, 2020
  5. Overnight

    Overnight

    LTD is the 3rd business day before the 25th calendar day of the month preceding the contract month. If the 25th falls on a non-business day, trading stops on the 4th business day before the 25th calendar day of the month preceding the contract month. That was April 21.
     
    #125     Apr 24, 2020
  6. qwerty11

    qwerty11

    #126     Apr 24, 2020
  7. 329200

    329200

    #127     Apr 24, 2020
  8. 329200

    329200

    Appears it did. The -$37.63 was settlement on 4/20, the retail firms stated that since they do not support delivery you couldn't trade it on the last day which was 4/21. Essentially it seems like this rule allowed extreme price movements to happen on Monday, and eliminated retail from being able to get out of their negative losses on Tuesday.
     
    #128     Apr 24, 2020
  9. southall

    southall

    With IB was it possible enter a market sell order when the price was negative in WTI?
     
    #129     Apr 24, 2020
  10. Overnight

    Overnight

    Let's just not have this intellectual exercise on negative prices any longer? Oy! Negative prices of energy are just bad juju for the world. Be glad for now that it happened for one day only.

    Like a ping. One ping only please.

     
    #130     Apr 24, 2020