I wonder if I'm just getting too damned old for 1 minute charts...

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by jnbadger, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. bighog

    bighog Guest

    This week i traded without the 1m chart, used the 5m exclusively.

    It was like the screens were yelling back to me "WELCOME HOME"

    For me at least, this is how it works regarding different time frames. I might do weekly printouts of the daily and the previous weeks 30m charts as a quick look back if i want an idea of where a "level" might find support/resist if not clear in my head. Even that peek is rather rare. I am old school so yes i still do printouts instead of clicking on various screens. Handle123 might even remember when we all did charts by hand and considered witch-craft at best.

    The biggest reinvention this week using the 5m only in ES and 6E and heaven forbid in CL (though i discarded the 1m in CL i will still say it can be used there because price action in the 5m can be quite flaky compared to ES, CL in my mind probably should only be traded from a 1m chart and then use price momentum once in a trade).......... ok, aside from CL using the 5m as a standalone simply means there is ZERO need for a 1m because when focused properly in the 5m what good can the 1m offer? Watching the 5m setting up a possible breakout, reversal, continuation, or doing the Texas two-step with no real direction is not going to be helped by observing a 1m unless you are trying to gain a few ticks for entry or for exit. What can be gained by such tactics can be lost just as fast by getting in to early on failed signals and getting out to early on "tests" or again failed signals when actually still valid in the 5m.

    I can glean what is showing in the 1m charts by watching the 5m, the only real incentive using a smaller time frame should be for scalping, not for "levels" trading.

    Can there ever be a game where the ways to win or lose can be more diverse than trading futures in small time frames, i think not. Granted, chasing women was a game where the outcome was once again determined not only by your best efforts but also by her desires to drive you batty trying...........

    To many posts lately........catch you cats much later :)
    #11     Feb 18, 2012
  2. 45 shouldn't be a problem. I am around that too, and I use the 1m with the 5m and the 1H. I can't really tell the difference between them. So trading the 1m I get more exposure to price action than trading the 1H charts which is important at my level. I can fine tune the entries using the 1m with the 5m and 1H chart so there is really no heat taken. And I find out fast if I am wrong, usually in few ticks.
    I think even if I were trading the 1H I would still use the 1m and 5m for entries.

    But may be one day I will attend your 1 min CA meeting and follow the 12 steps program, but now I like my 1 min chart on the side of my 5m main course. :)
    #12     Feb 18, 2012
  3. There are definitely exceptions, so I don't think it will be possible to quit "cold turkey" style.

    This is esrx on the 6th. It fun trading this one using the one minute when it was flying.
    #13     Feb 18, 2012
  4. NoDoji


    When you mentioned ESRX I remembered back when I was trading the momo stocks in early 2010, I think, and I'd have a 1-min chart just above the 3-min chart. I was just beginning to get into price action trading and so was still using stochs as filter. I'd watch for the stochs to line up in both time frames and as soon as the 1-min fast line pivoted, I'd take a position opposite the previous price move.

    What's interesting is that I do almost the same thing now trading pure PA, with the 5-min being my main time frame and 1-min confluence sometimes getting me in early, or if I'm waiting for more confirmation of strength or weakness before entering, the 1-min gets me in once the move is already underway.

    Bighog, you should post one of your hand-annotated charts, they're fantastic! Were you in Skype with Sam while he was scalping CL and ES at the same time using 1-min charts? I could hardly focus on my own trading I was so enthralled with his prowess at doing that. He's definitely less than 45 years old :p :p

    Sam, if you're reading this, tell us your age. Please say you're about 25 so we don't feel so inept :D
    #14     Feb 18, 2012
  5. Albert


    I'm in my fifties and 1 minute can seem like an eternity. I trade 1 minute and 80 contract charts, depending on my adderall levels (JK) but I only get about 4-5 trades a day with that. I end up having to trade 3 or 4 different securities just to get any trades some days.
    What it sounds like is that your parameters are too loose. If the 1 minute is giving you too many trades (especially in this ridiculous small range environment -on the indexes) then maybe if you widen it out the accuracy goes up? Not sure how much peace of mind is worth (hence the slower approach), but I like being immersed while I'm working and slower time frames make me lazy. And a lazy trader is a poorer trader. Maybe.
    #15     Feb 18, 2012
  6. Good points, Albert. But I can tell you I honestly think I see more opportunity on the 5 minute charts, simply because I'm not focused on every little wiggle.

    Please keep in mind, my strategy consists of running a scanner all day to find the stocks which have unusual movement at the moment. And even though there are days when I am only watching a few things at once, there are others when all 24 of my charts are populated with things that are going relatively crazy. On days like that I end up catching the more solid opportunities with the 5 minute because trying to keep up with that many equities on a one minute basis drives me crazy, and I know I'm missing the bigger picture.

    If I were only watching a few futures contracts throughout the day, every day, I would probably have 5 or 6 different time frames up for each instrument.

    I agree, it is easy to get lazy and bored, and I have to deal with fighting that on the slow days. But my problem has historically been trying to watch way too much at once, and I cannot even begin to imagine how much opportunity I have missed over the years on the days which are super volatile.
    #16     Feb 18, 2012
  7. Albert


    I'll tell you what I do because I am only profitable in the mornings. I quit day trading at 12 EST. Since I swing trade options I use the afternoons to find appropriate candidates. I don't even start looking until 3. That is when the inevitable run up before close happens so I get them fairly cheap then. Also, I only trade the same 25 stocks so it only takes 2 or 3 minutes to decide.
    I didn't realize that you had so much sensory overload. It isn't the 1 minute chart, it's the damned scanner. Now I get it. Your Universe is too big. Sorry bro, I need more control than that.
    #17     Feb 18, 2012
  8. My setups are very specific. And like I said, there are many days when my scanner can't even get me more than a few charts to watch, even though it is scanning every issue out there. And on the busy days, the 5 minute charts narrow it down even more.

    If I watched the same 25 stocks every day, I would either get 1 setup a month, or I would have to start from scratch and work an entirely different set of parameters. As a matter of fact, I have tried that, and it doesn't work for me.

    I like my universe just fine, thank you. To each his own.
    #18     Feb 18, 2012
  9. bighog

    bighog Guest

    Completely agree about the 5m, that was the frustration with the 1m, common sense tells us that focusing on the 1m would naturally distract from the 5m. I was under the false impression that since the 5m was slower i could get as many handles in the 5 as i normally would but enhance the day with more easy pickins by trading the 1m scalping account in a separate account....... it required a boatload more work for less than expected results. Mind you, i do not trade stocks.

    Do a review of last weeks ES 5m trading only and ask yourself this question: "if i traded just this one instrument in just this single time frame and used basic levels-support/resist parameters laced with the 20 ema as your guardian angel to stay either Long or Short side of the mkt, throw in silly stuff like milking the retraces as continuations when the retrace forms a flag after you picked off some profit from the previous leg of a normal 3 legged runner and showed a neato measured move...........etc. " Why would another time frame be needed?

    The second part of your post about a few futures with a multitude of time frames made me reach for the bottle of extra strength MAALOX........... INFORMATION OVERLOAD

    You are seeking something that was overlooked long ago...........LESS IS MORE!!!

    PS: Looking at all those time frames to quide you to an entry how in the world will all that help to set the STOP LOSS? Will you enter into the 5m because you liked what you saw in the hourly chart? That would mean your STOP would not be in tune with the hourly.

    PSS: speaking of age...........why the ... do i use the Q in place of G....senior moments, ha

    Milk that certain time frame, get comfy with it, do not seek more, just increase size. Heck, i even had trouble handling one women at a time in my life, trading is not much different. Ok, i admit, if i met a chick at a bar and asked her name and she said........ES, i would propose... :eek:
    #19     Feb 18, 2012

  10. Good point, but that was just a hypothetical. And it does sound a bit silly to even consider it. That's why I only have one chart up for each stock I'm looking at. Looking at multple time frames for a dozen stocks at the same time would get me frustrated to the point where I would just quit.
    #20     Feb 18, 2012