I see why sharpe of 3 is so desirable

Discussion in 'Strategy Building' started by SabreMan, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. Palindrome

    Palindrome

    I trade futures, directionally, place bets on where it will go. Average hold between 2 hours and 2 days or so. Long short. I trade about 10 different markets (energy, currencies, metals, equity indexes. etc)

    It took me 8 years to learn this, 8000 hours or so.
     
    #11     Jun 25, 2018
  2. SabreMan

    SabreMan

    More proof that short term trading gives the best Sharpe ratio and are superior to longer term trading for smaller accounts (below $10 million).
     
    #12     Jun 25, 2018
    sysdevel99 likes this.
  3. Not sure any proof is needed. Assuming you have alpha, the higher the frequency the higher the sharpe(daily). IMO, sharpe is useless for short term traders. It's all about $PnL.
     
    #13     Jun 25, 2018
  4. Palindrome

    Palindrome

    Rallymode,
    I hear ya but is it more impressive comparing:

    2million account generating $500,000 in profit
    or
    700k account generating $500,000 in profit

    I know PNL is all that matters in reality, but it has it's limitations in comparing results.
     
    #14     Jun 25, 2018
  5. drm7

    drm7

    Another useful tool of the Sharpe ratio is position sizing. It is mathematically linked to the optimal Kelly bet formula. The "continuous Kelly leverage" is calculated by Sharpe/STDDEV. So, a 50% return/25% STDDEV, K = 2/.25 = 8x leverage to maximize lifetime log return of the account. Of course, it is only a theoretical number, and the slightest deviation from your return record can blow you out. You also have to maintain the leverage "continuously" i.e. - buy into a higher equity curve and sell down into a lower equity curve. The drawdowns at full Kelly are huge as well.

    To extend your example:

    K (sharpe = 1) = 1/.5 = 2
    K (sharpe = 3) = 3/.1667 = 18 (!!!)

    Ernie Chan explains this in his book Quantitative Trading (and also this blog post)

    http://epchan.blogspot.com/2006/10/how-much-leverage-should-you-use.html
     
    #15     Jun 25, 2018
  6. SabreMan

    SabreMan

    Cool, thanks for that. Im using 3x leverage at the moment to boost my returns to over 150%, but that is based on the max leverage IB will give me. At other brokers i could go closer to x8 leverage if i was starting out small.

    I think the idea is you decide how much max drawdown you want and then use kelly on that.
    So if you have 1million and only want to risk 250K, you would assume your equity is 250K and use close to full kelly on that. That way 750K is safe.
    At least that is what Ed Thorp said in Hedge fund market wizards.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
    #16     Jun 25, 2018
  7. that's correct: high sharpe systems show a straight uptrend, once that's broken it usually indicates a system stopped working.
     
    #17     Jun 25, 2018
  8. sle

    sle

    That and beating the costs. There are so many things out there where you can make a few hundred K a year with a Sharpe of 3, but scaling it to something meaningful like 5-10 bucks never seem to work.

    Sharpe is pretty misleading, all things considered. You can have all sorts of artifacts due to the fact that it penalizes any discontinuity, so big positive days can easily lower it.
     
    #18     Jun 25, 2018
  9. Playing with the equity curve?
     
    #19     Jun 26, 2018
  10. I'm not sure what you mean by this. To elaborate on why high sharpe is important to me: it is because sharpe indicates statistical significance of my edge(s). Especially if the edge is developed through data mining instead of some kind of fundamental economic analysis, you need a way of having confidence in the pattern. It is similar to a scientist looking for a p-value below a certain threshold. Without a high sharpe, a backtest is about as useful all those studies that say chocolate reduces your risk of cancer, while the other half of studies found the opposite.
     
    #20     Jun 26, 2018