I picked up some Charles Schwab notes

Discussion in 'Fixed Income' started by TimtheEnchanter, Jul 11, 2023.

  1. zdreg

    zdreg

    you have an active imagination. Can you prove your assertion?
     
    #21     Jul 12, 2023
  2. kmiklas

    kmiklas

    Can you post the CUSIP please? I want to see if it's callable. That's BIG, because if prevailing rates happen to plunge and your bond goes UP in value, they can call it back, stick you with your money, and not pay your interest. This is a risk that must be reflected in the yield.

    You see my point, right? To assume the additional risk of a security rated A- when you can have almost the same return from an AAA US Treasury for almost the same return? Especially if it's callable? From this perspective, the Schwab bond is not a rational decision.

    The secondary bonds market is Over-the-Counter (OTC)... you're swimming in the ocean, with the sharks, and the stingrays... be careful out there!

    Again, none of this is to be take personally. I'm just looking at the numbers.
     
    #22     Jul 12, 2023
    TimtheEnchanter likes this.
  3. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    you said that bankers don't issue bonds below par. That's not true. Bonds are issued below par all the time.

    Your second paragraph has nothing to do with a bond trading at, above, or below par.
     
    #23     Jul 12, 2023
    kmiklas likes this.
  4. kmiklas

    kmiklas

    I'll get back to you. I have to take a closer look. Did you purchase these at issue or on the secondary market?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2023
    #24     Jul 12, 2023
  5. It is callable, but I got out this morning with a whopping $7 loss. The worse yield is including the call function, isn't it? I have $60k in treasury notes too, so this was not a big investment.
    upload_2023-7-12_8-2-9.png
     
    #25     Jul 12, 2023
  6. kmiklas

    kmiklas

    Phew good! I was worried about you <3
     
    #26     Jul 12, 2023
    TimtheEnchanter likes this.
  7. mervyn

    mervyn

    Principal Value took in before fees is the par, otherwise any desk can arb the trade at the get go. Issuer lost money and the bankers lost fees due to inefficient pricing.

    If you can hold that long, Apple 2049 is trading at 73.567, "whopping" 27% plus near 70% coupon sum, but woulld you buy that?
     
    #27     Jul 12, 2023
  8. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    Do you understand time value of money?
    If so, then how is buying a bond below par an arb?
     
    #28     Jul 12, 2023
  9. mervyn

    mervyn

    In the ideal world, insurance cost for a bond default shall be equal to the bond vs becnhmark spread, lot of papers published back then about efficiency of bond pricing using CDS to mark but not all bonds have their own CDS, adjustments were made using comparables.
     
    #29     Jul 12, 2023
  10. mervyn

    mervyn

    you forgot the cost of money and the opportunitiy costs. if my borrowing cost is zero or opm, i'd by this darn thing.
     
    #30     Jul 12, 2023