'I Have A Dream'- to all futures traders

Discussion in 'Trading' started by cap'ncod, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. Question: what is stopping 1000 retail traders 'clubbing' together, forming a co-operative base and having a sizable presence in the market. We all know the order book manipulation and the sheer power advantages of being a large institution, so why not have a CTA or algorithm trade 1000 segregated accounts linked to trade 1000-3000 contracts at a time. What is stopping this? Legislation? Mr a no longer trades against mr b they trade together against their real competitor- the banks. All intelligent responses will be welcome.
  2. 1000-3000 isn't enough size if we are talking ES.
  3. Like many things in life, sounds great on paper.

    Now setting it up and getting it done, a completely different story.
  4. oraclewizard77

    oraclewizard77 Moderator

  5. because the advantage we have as individual traders is instant liquidity to fill our positions. you can make money off of the splashes the largest institutions leave when they move around. stop trying to play a game you aren't equipped for- and learn your niche. as an individual trader- your key advantage is complete liquidity at a single price, now use that to your advantage. think about big people who need 10 or 20 prices to enter and exit a trade, now find their splash and make your couple prices off of them.
  6. This doesn't make sense. I understand and appreciate what you're getting at but the issue is the ability to 'weather' the storms, just like a yacht. The smaller the boat the more vulnerable it is to the conditions. As a little retailer. our 'splash' is often the slight ripple as the tsunami of bank power drowns us.
  7. Accepted. But if you applied that rationale to anything complex nothing would ever be achieved.
  8. It just isn't enough size. That is the first problem.

    The second problem is what happens when 3000 contracts move away from your entry price by 10 points?

    The third problem, IMO, is that it would have to be done electronically and you wouldn't have create enough "impact". It would have to be in the pit with someone reputable pulling the strings for you so others would take notice.

    I think it is a pretty terrible idea, but I understand where you are coming from. There was recently an article posted here about a guy that tried to do what you are thinking in the pits a while back and now is in prison. He was also a con-artist type though. I should say that is the way the article painted him to be at least.

    I'll find it for you and post it, great read.

  9. very noble thought and challenge / invitation

    as one stated even 10,000 / 30,000 in ES means nothing.

    let's practice


    here's $100,000,000

    that's 100 million.

    how will you allocate it?

    keep in mind that some idiot with $2.4 billion hit the ES market and caused / contributed heavily to the one day blip.

    ok, enough time (that was in real time mind you)

    you would use the full size, pit traded contract so as to hid your true origin and source of funds / participation, NOT the ECN(s).

    you would leverage no more than 60% of your active position in front markets (not to be confused with front contract traded month)

    you would use your remaining 40% in reserves (that's all that I will say for free on these threads)

    now, with those parameters, go and recalculate your disbursement of funds into trading vehicles (contracts, positions, etc.)
    #10     Nov 10, 2010