I hate my Broker or Prop Firm

Discussion in 'Trading' started by trade555, Jul 23, 2002.

  1. canuck


    It's too bad that some of the biggest firms (well daytrade firms) treat their employees, the ones that pay the lights, so poorly. Forget all the talk about trading without bullets. Yes it's possible, but when you want to go short, you want it right now. If your firm won't give them to you, then obviously they don't know how to run a firm. I don't know much about Worldco, but they sound like they really don't care if you make it or not.

    on a more general note about this industry, the problems you bring up are the sad truth these days. Few firms offer you a no commision but percentage payout, in which case the firms want their traders to succeed, and guys like you who are gross positive make money. It sounds like you are forced to trade when you don't want to. I never understood that. If you are profitable, then trade whatever way you want. Forget scalping if you're making money on quarters. They want you to churn, more money in their pockets. But if you're no longer there, can that be beneficial to them either??

    #31     Jul 24, 2002
  2. I am probably quitting this week. I have spoke to Schonfeld a few times and they have an open door for me. A lot of the top traders there only trade 2 days a month and they let you hold for as long as you want. I have always been good at position trading and Worldco is not for me. I am really sick and tired of getting milked in fees and when I know the market or a stock is going to make a big move I am only able to daytrade it. Daytrading is only good if your fees are really low and the stress of watching bids and offers getting spread is to much.
    #32     Jul 24, 2002
  3. rs7


    OK, I respect your respectful disagreement:)
    I must admit that I have very limited experience trading mid-cap stocks that move the way you describe. And I can see how bullets would make it at least possible to short them when otherwise you could not. I guess I am just a believer in buying stocks that are not in up movement, and shorting stocks not in down movement. I do however understand that some listed stocks just don't uptick, and therefor can't be shorted even when moving sideways. Or just drifting lower slowly. So if you want to trade them, I guess bullets are the way to go. I never said I was "anti-bullet"...just that they incur extra costs.

    I am actually surprised that "bullets" can be created on stocks that trade thinly (which is how I interpret your description of how these mid caps trade). To create a bullet you need to be have a market in both the puts and calls of the underlying issue. How can there be a real market in the options if there isn't in the stock?

    Having said all this, why not just trade stocks that are more liquid and more volatile? I trade primarily otc stocks, but the listed stocks I trade are very easy to short.....banks, brokers, drugs, drillers, retailers, energy. There are so many stocks, why mess around with ones that add difficulty?
    #33     Jul 24, 2002
  4. rs7


    A: Open door? Who told you that?
    B: Top traders meaning what? Three guys? The other 700 can't hold any position more than 24 hours.
    C: 2 days a month? Yeah, if you can make $1,000,000 a day! You are going to go to Schonfeld from Worldco and get $50,000,000 in buying power??? Very amusing!!
    D: You will be trading 100 shares and not allowed to overnight at all!!! Additionally you will probably only be allowed to trade limited time frames in the mornings and the afternoons.
    E: You will be expected to go to training meetings virtually every day.
    F: You will be getting 20% payout.
    G: It is the best firm, no doubt. But it isn't anything like you describe.
    #34     Jul 24, 2002
  5. I can understand that the firms want you to daytrade to generate commissions and to control their aggregate overnight risk exposure.

    BUT.......not holding winners overnight, especially winning shorts in this market where everybody wants to short and shares are hard to get, has got to cut into your p/l. Come to think of it, even in the bull years it would have cost you a lot of money not to hold onto your winners.

    Maybe a more experienced daytrader or a firm owner like Mr. Bright can answer this fundamental question of dumping winners just because the day is over. It seems like a very important issue and I don't know if I want to try prop trading unless I can find a way around it.
    #35     Jul 24, 2002
  6. rs7


    All about capital requirement. It takes more to hold a position overnight. Simple as that.
    #36     Jul 24, 2002
  7. Been their done that. I was with a prop firm. It was a good firm until the market turned and they got a little nervous.

    I traded their captial and got paid well. However, the time of the prop house is over. I saw the top in 2001. I left to join a small partnership.

    I think if you can, trade your own captial, you get full benefits and you take full responsability.

    To learn at a prop house is fine. But know the diffrence. A prop house does not ask you for any capital. NONE> not even 10 g

    Anything else is a chop shop.....and believe me they love your business.

    However, if your just starting out they are good for a launching pad. But remember when you bring your money to the table, your next goal is to move on ur own.....work towards that goal.

    There are many traders who make nothing and talk up thier shop. I talked to one today at WLDC. lol

    You can tell who is successful and who is not, just read between the lines.

    #37     Jul 24, 2002
  8. er is on target.
    #38     Jul 24, 2002
  9. It is hard to find a good backer. It is hit or miss. Make sure you trust the person/group.....

    if its a group that you can bring your money into, either right away or later and a group that is small but inovative....that is the Ace.

    It took me a while to find such a group....and it was by mishap.

    Think before you jump ship......make sure that you have a place to go or ur captial to trade.

    The street is getting leaner and meaner.

    #39     Jul 24, 2002
  10. rs7


    7/24...3:57 pm

    7/24....9:28 pm

    Something seems more than a little off....maybe it's just me:confused:
    PS: I don't work at Schonfeld, but I have worked WITH Schonfeld in several capacities over many years. Trade555 is delusional.
    #40     Jul 24, 2002