I gave up the "grail" yet he failed.

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by TrueRange, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. You're quite abrasive.

    The guy already gave him the tools 1 time. The other party has shown the inability to follow instructions.

    Doing it a 2nd time is due to the OP being generous.

    How many on this board would jump at the chance to learn just 1 time?
     
    #41     Nov 2, 2010
  2. The guy did nothing but stroke his own EGO.

    I have a group of guys full time in a room for over a year now that I taught to trade and I'm still not even 50% done.

    Teaching someone to trade is a full time commitment not simply giving them a set up rules. Give me a break !
     
    #42     Nov 2, 2010
  3. One year? You have no system.
     
    #43     Nov 2, 2010
  4. TrueRange,

    While it may seem like a good idea to help him again (and the nice thing especially as you feel you owe him), the fact is he knows he messed up and is looking for the easy way out, i.e. more advice and help. That right there says he is looking for a shortcut back to where he was and this is very dangerous for his development if this is something he wants to pursue long term and be successful. In other words, he hasn’t learned his lesson IMHO. Helping him now just reinforces the bad behavior that will hurt or kill his account over time without your help. This is inevitable if he doesn’t learn this lesson. As others have stated, he should consider himself lucky to learn this now instead of when trading lots of equity.

    I would ask him questions that lead him to the proper answer but you can’t just tell him not to break the rules, he has to feel it and learn why it matters and that in this business, you pay dearly for mistakes, especially preventable ones. Until he connects the dots about why it is important, you could tell him everyday for a month not to break the rules but it won’t matter. It is a rite of passage on his way to success that if he doesn’t learn this, he will never see long-term success. I say get him to see the right answer and say talk to me in six months.

    You have a choice to make. Do you really want to help his probability of learning to trade, thinking for himself and taking responsibility for his actions is the path to success or do you care more about making an effort just to fulfill your felt obligation to him knowing it isn’t in his best interest to break the rules now. Because doing what is best for his development isn’t easy and he will probably never understand how much you helped him see the light if he doesn’t make it. But it is best for him. As good traders know, things are set up in such a way as to take what helps you in real life and use it against you to the detriment of your wallet. Learning to change you thinking and mindset is a lesson he must learn and integrate to progress. You know what I would pick but all that matters is what you would or will do.

    The only other piece of advice I would give him is this (I read it in a book of which I do not remember but it is excellent advice, maybe a Van Tharp book). A money manager was struggling with his trading until he made this realization. He pretended that he was just the order entry clerk and his boss was away on a deserted island only to return at year end to evaluate his performance. His only job was to follow his signals and systems. Period. His boss compensated him entirely not on how much money he made or lost, but on how well he followed his rules. That got this person to properly place his worth as a trader/money manager not on his P & L or individual trade results, but on how well he followed his plan and rules. This inevitably helped both. His success skyrocketed when he changed his mindset and thinking to this method. It may help. It sounds like you already gave him phenomenal advice but he hasn’t realized it yet. Unfortunately, the statistics say he never will.

    Sorry, long-winded but best of luck.

    BM
     
    #44     Nov 2, 2010
  5. I've been trading for 25 years.

    :cool:
     
    #45     Nov 3, 2010
  6. vk60546

    vk60546

    Let me ask you something. Does technical analysis work or does it not?

    I'm confused by what I'm reading so far. I've got Dr. Alexander Elder's Trading for a Living and in the book he says, on the one hand, that you can't figure out the market since the market is human psychology and psychiatry. On the other hand, he is providing patterns that semi-predict what the next move may be.

    So... this drives me to ask a question, does technical analysis work?

    Also, if you don't mind me asking, did your relative had to purchase any software or any system to implement your plan?

    Thanks.
     
    #46     Nov 5, 2010
  7. vk60546

    vk60546

    btw, why not disclose your rules here? :)

    What could happen if these were made public? Would they stop working for you or would they be reinforced and be more true?
     
    #47     Nov 5, 2010
  8. good point.
     
    #48     Mar 16, 2012
  9. You did the best thing for him. There are no shortcuts to long-term success.

    Cheers.
     
    #49     Mar 16, 2012
  10. any follow-up of this guy?

    did he blow up? how many times? did he give up and found a regular job?
     
    #50     Mar 17, 2012