You are short as of the end of the bar 1 and you place the BM using the top of bar 1. You are going to place an rtl ASAP and this requires bar 2 As bar 2 forms, you see that the BM is penetrated and that no rtl is possible. fails safe is helping you. No luck is required. BM, REV of bar 2 is affected and Go long is noted on price. Use the green panel here, again.
As more bars form the day goes on. As I suggested, I am fairly tied up. things to do if you wish: post charts and logs. always post the day's carry over.
So my # 3 was the correct solution but for other reasons than I thought. I feel that I don't have a good enough handle on the bands, yet and how and when to use them. Especially the table. Let's pretend I really was able to identify bar 78 as a P3P or EE. From this I don't see what links a P3P to band Ha. I see in the columns: 1. "BOTH HVBO" that probably means it is a High Volume BO of the primary and secondary. "Higher Peak" for Upper limit, "T1" for lower limit and "P1" for Window left event. What does this all mean? Lower limit (in this case) I think is clear. Upper limit... to create a band I need two points. The first one is the upper limit and the second is the lower. For upper limit it says "Higher Peak". Higher than what? Which Peak? And at the end it defines a "Windows left event" which is a P1. What is a "Window left event"? Still... Nothing in both band tables would have linked a P3P or any other volume event to any of those bands. And again... let's say I identified it really as a Ha band. Now what? How is that useful? It seems to be used somehow as a way to determine the turn type. But how? Regarding the OB... until today I would have assigned each OB I find either a: PP4, PP5, PP5a or PP5b. But it seems like that is not automatically true.
Why go short on OB bar?You first went long and then short on the same bar(OB).Why?Volume showed P1/T1.Or you went long and then short on OB since it`s 'always 2 point in pattern'?
Much of what you say here is correct. You are about to have all the pieces fall in place. A band has two points. From these points going forward into the future each point forms either the upper limit or the lower limit. All of the future is to the right. Bands form by one limit and then another limit occurring. An OB is similar, two points are involved on one bar. If a trough is first, then you do not have an EE on an OB. As a trend continues, a wider and wider window exists and all of this window is to the left (in the past which is still in play. As you observed, th end of Monday was short and the wwindow to the left grew longer and longer. First a primary of the trend was set up. Then on the third move of the trend a secondary occurred. The primary volume band has two limits and it begins with the limits of the A band. Soon the B band came into view with the new limit of P2. C band was formed with a band "inside" of T1 and P2. You can read it's limits as the limits of the secondary. All limits are in volume values for the forming trend within the Left window framing over a series of bars. The lengthy short trend at the end of Monday had a BM and an rtl not shown on your chart. Many many bars moved "away" from these failsafe measures. The market was "offering" a very nice net profit for this trend "hold". as a consequence, the volume limits for the bands came for band after band. as the right side of the daily catenary built, we had many limits set one after another. we moved from band to band making mey all the while. so I glanced at the bars on your chart in the left window forming the lengthy short trade. as usual bar 78, where he margin changes, blew away the primnary and secondary price limits of the trend formation. Ammo shows a chart that displays many daily catenaries. We trade many times in a catenary as most know. Our P&L sheets show how the full offer occurs in the catenaries. Usually, a day's P&L shows in the 25 to 35 point per contract range. this is many trading segments of taking the market's offer; the full offer during the day. Each completed segment puts the total past to rest. the market's offer from the past is finished and gone as a opportunity. the trader's mind has a spectrum and it is fully differentiated. how this organization is dome is known to the mind and the mind has been doing this since time began. So FF's mind and my mind do not regard the info on Ammo's chart as relevant. we do not take the offer of the intermediate trend since it is so much less than the full offer of the market. 30 points per contract doubles one's capital. And it is also true that none of the full offer is received if the person is not in the market. Funds stay in the market all of the time and they do not take the full offer of the market. They cannot since they do not have a method of seeing any market signals. the 20 day learning experience depends upon having information. So rather than ask people to deduce this information I just posted all of it. Either way the mind has it available for use once the information may be seen. Now, I understand that my information sheets are probably not readable since I use scientific and mathematical terminology. for me I cn glance at FF's chart and see the short sentiment. I also quickly take not of the Left Window in affect. I see promptly that enogh bars happened to form the primary. I also see immediately th secondar within the primary. I know I will exit just before the RTH margin is extinguished since I would be 94% invested. thus I set the scene for how to use carry over to get the pen straight. I fully appreciate the posts the workers make. It allows me to "read" the learning and to "read" the loose ends still to be drilled. The flow sheets you have been given are there to help you go through a process of handling events. Five OOE's are intermingled and each bar is so long that you can do all that is needed in those 300 seconds. fortunately the trends "flow" during the day. by any means you can make guesses on beginnings since they are also ends. If you cannot see these as you begin to learn, maybe you can see the "middles" between ends. Once perception begins to differentiate ends from middles, then your repetition over and over within the failsafe tools will gradually build your mind while you sleep. I just throw in the conscious annotating and logging to speede the process up by a few thousands times.
Thank you for explaining that a new P1 forms after an EE. So with that in mind, I get how bars 80,81,and 1 are P1. But I would have labeled bar 2 as T1 whereas you labeled it as another P1 even though the volume was less than prior P1. Can you please explain because I am struggling my way through the volume annotations using this chart: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=3831320
That is why I insisted that baro-san was only partly right. Just because it looks like a through doesn't mean we assign one to it. You need to pay attention to the order of events. The table you posted and th evolume test procedure seem very simple. You start with a P1 then check for a repeat in rev cron order and then you might end up with a next. The reason why Jack ended up with a P1 instead a T1 is because I gave him in the chart bars from the day before. Therfore he knew what had happened before and where he was in the OOE. If he didn't have the previous bars then I'm sure he had to assume a P1/T1 situation.