How to work towards going full time

Discussion in 'Trading' started by John9999, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. I agree,
    The formula to exponentially grow a trading account is far from rocket science, or mythical, or supernatural or a lottery mentality.

    It's just a relatively simple matter of dabbling in something highly liquid, and volatile, and churning and growing the account.
    Compounding...they say it's the 8'th Wonder of the World, o_O

    KISS: Keep it Simple, stupid. -- You're way more likely to accomplish that goal above if you trade one thing.
    If you're all over the place, or trade many things, chances are you're not a master of any of them...and are all over the place, so are your random messy returns and results and performance.

    The Universe...all started out with the Big Bang 14 billion years ago...prior to that, the universe was only the size of an atom.
    (or some scientists hypothesized)
    Now, it requires like 500+ billion Light Years to even just reach the end of the observable universe.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    #21     Feb 19, 2018
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  2. tomorton

    tomorton


    It can be done, but the numbers of winners are so low, these could be just outliers surely?
    And I said "almost" impossible, as I know of winning daytraders myself.
     
    #22     Feb 19, 2018
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  3. You think Colombia of high quality?I used to live in Panama and Costa Rica.Thinking about moving there again this fall.
     
    #23     Feb 19, 2018
  4. use milestone baby step goals. they will keep it realistic & measure your progress

    eg
    milestone 1: make $x, no time limit
    milestone 2: make $xx, no time limit
    milestone 3: make $xxx, no time limit
    milestone 4: make 1/4 of monthly income /mth
    milestone 5: make 1/2 of monthly income /mth
    milestone 6: make monthly income /mth
    milestone 7: ... ... at this point, it is up to our imaginations

    the 1st one is the hardest to reach. it will be a gauge of whether you have a viable edge. boy oh boy, once one reaches the 1st, it is a matter of how far one can stretch his mindset

    practical eg. daytrading futures on 1 lot, risking 150-300usd per trade, with a 50-50 winrate (excluding breakeven trades) & a 1:3 upwards r:r. one can get there for sure, with a proper edge derived from thousands of hours observing oneself trading the markets. a true edge in my observation, can be applied to any trading instrument

    it takes 10k hours to master a skill. do some personal calculations & see how many hours you have to clock a day. it is a committment. best to really ask yourself if you want this, & the core singular reason (ala inception) why you want this
     
    #24     Feb 19, 2018
    slugar likes this.
  5. slugar

    slugar

    Best to set a schedule not a time limit
     
    #25     Feb 19, 2018
    murray t turtle likes this.
  6. Yes, for a nice life Medellin particularly is very good, Antioquia department in general is nice. I grew up near the sea so I like the mountains now and additionally I know I'd find the beach too attractive with sailing so for discipline purposes, the weather is nearly always perfect, beautiful girls but not in distracting bikinis and on boats etc.

    Broadband etc, very good with 4g available for three years as a backup. Bogota is pretty crappy, the worst congestion, very bad public transport. Good for culture and clubs but Medellin is fine also. Compared to Panama city.. you would struggle to buy some luxury goods, for example I had to order an Omega Speedmaster for my GF's dad's birthday from Bogota however it is only a one hour flight from the downtown airport.

    Few to no Ferraris but the people are good.
     
    #26     Feb 19, 2018
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  7. Jack1960

    Jack1960

    I make a killing but it took several years.
     
    #27     Feb 19, 2018
  8. prc117f

    prc117f

    You want a Minimum of 250K before you could even think of quitting your day-job I dont recommend it at 250K. 500K would be a good starting point for trading capital 1,000,000 USD is the optimal starting point.With 500-1M you can trade SPY and hedge your position with options. You want to minimize risk to capital and generate a good risk adjusted return and save a good percentage to allow you to grow your income 2-4% a year so you can stay ahead of inflation and cost of living, the less you spend and the more you can keep in the trading pot the better you will do.

    So what you need to do is save money from your job and invest it carefully (I recommend SPY) over the next 10 years to build up your trading capital and remember to factor in the cost of health insurance into your expense.

    After a while you can use some of the money to put into other kinds of investments ie good quality property etc.. (pay off your mortgage for example would be #1) What I did was pay off my primary mortgage and then 10 years later I was able to buy my neighbors house and create a "Compound" His and Hers house. :) (I own 3 properties, one doubled in value since I purchased it in 2012) My first home is over double its value and the other is about 8%[next door neighbor house] higher in value.

    Anyone who says you can quit your day job with 10K etc.. is 100% full of BS :)

    #1 Get a good skill that lends itself to a good paying job that allows you to save money to build up nest egg for trading.

    #2 live below your means, the less money you blow and the more you put aside for your nest egg the better. Remember every dollar you put away means the quicker you can get to your goal.

    #3 trade diversified, forget trying to trade some single Ticker trying to hit a home run, you will most likely lose your money trying to gamble on some stock. I like SPY myself.

    #4 insure your portfolio, it is no different than insuring your home. SPY options to provide black swan insurance in the event of some major event.


    If you saw us in person you would never think we had money, we drive cars over 14 years old etc.. live low key dont dress fancy etc.. And I prefer people have no idea we have multiple properties etc.. best to be discrete.
     
    #28     Feb 19, 2018
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  9. I would suggest the following guidelines for knowing when you can quit your day job and do full time trading/investing:

    1) Calculate your worst case scenario income -- Will you still make enough from trading that you will be fine in the worst case scenario (every trade is a loss, market conditions are bad, etc.). Perhaps 80% of your portfolio is in dividends that pay enough to squeak by and the other 20% is your trading that pays for the luxuries.

    2) Calculate your 'idle' income -- If you do not actively trade (you are sick, injured, etc.) will you still be able to draw enough income from your portfolio to get by okey. (Dividends, small drawdown, etc.)

    3) While working -- Can you make about 10-25% of your salary from managing your portfolio (day trading and long term investing).

    4) While working -- Can you see that you can make more but just need the time (i.e., you only made 25% of your salary because the time needed to do additional research/programming/whatever was not available as you were in the office doing your day job).

    5) Try it -- Maybe you can take 1-2 months of vacation and see how well you use this time. Does it make a material difference.

    If you can meet all the aboves, then its worth considering taking a 1-2 year sabbatical from work (a polite leave, not a 'take this job and **** it' note) and try it out.
     
    #29     Feb 19, 2018
  10. Handle123

    Handle123

    Often times people have the wrong jobs they have to start, they took them cause they paid right amount of money and that weighed more than enjoying what you are doing. Then you doing it a number of years of doing crap you now hate with every ounce of your being-so you are going down mentally or perhaps you physically can't do it-that was my case, I just couldn't lift any more. But I prepared myself for this outcome, I saved up 3 million, had rental properties that had positive nets, but one month of no rent, guess what, you have to keep paying the mortgage but I had that figure too, insurance, everything I could think about so when I quit, I was pretty much set to change careers to trading. The one thing I didn't count on, after few months, trading can be incredible boring. My last job of 17 years, overall, I actually loved, yea times of doing something you don't like, but overall it was pretty good. I didn't want to put in for disability, as I knew I could still do other things I had went to school, and I knew all those jobs I would hate. But the boredom of sitting there in 1999, minute by minute was compete drag, making money was no longer a joy, it was a mental commitment to do it each day, now had to go to a gym to workout whereas before never did, work was like a gym, you just didn't have anyone like this forum never found back then to spend time, make friends, at 43yo, and you not made many friends other than former job, you are so screwed. At some point I couldn't even enjoy dating, but I was making money in the Big S&P 500 cause the ES just didn't have the volume yet and I had gotten use to calling the floor, you get set in your ways in life and you don't realize that.

    Friend of mine came by and asked if he could park his truck out front, yeah, sure, didn't know it was 75 feet long, yep truck and trailer, and he was one of the best day traders I knew, showed me his set up and stayed for a week showing me how to trade from a truck, it no different than at home, I was hooked, took training and went driving till I got ill in 2008, have over one million safe miles under my belt. You make your own rules so long as you get there in time, companies don't care and I still did what I did at home, just new scenery each day and often forget where I was when I woke up. It not for 99% of people to be a gypsy of sorts, but I never really fit into most crowds, you have to come to terms of who you, stop lying to yourself too, know your limitations is huge. And I do miss being on the road, meeting real people in real small towns. Come home when I needed a break. Of course am single and unable to have children, some say I am lucky, but never saw it this way, thinking too old at 61yo to try for that, can't see having diapers into my 70s nor playing football and tossing the ball without getting surgery on shoulder. But I could teach them how to make a living after college, always good to have options.

    Couple of Neuro surgeons once told me that trading was the hardest careers they ever failed at, most likely only other career they tried for several years. You have to build a Trading Plan that takes years, then even worst, you have to be able to trust it.

    I think it important to keep having challenges, make new directions, change is good if you prepare for them, and really expand your circle of distance, there is so much in the world we have not seen, so grab your laptop and whether you love developing systems in my case or manually trading, book a flight, cruise, train and just go. Maybe I will find my best friend that happens to be a woman that way. ;)

    Was it worth it, tough to answer, many have already said how much time they gave up to become decent trader, and if you tire of manual trading and know a very good programmer, start a partnership and go bigger with automation, start a Hedge fund after that, keep expanding till you find what you love to do.

    Just remember, money is a Tool, it pays the bills and it is collectable, tools have a proper place and happiness still comes from within.
     
    #30     Feb 20, 2018
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