The title is redundant anyone seeking guru status is probably a charlatan. However here is my list. Feel free to add to the list. Lets try to keep it impersonal. 1. Any false guru will say "all you got to day is hold throw these _________. hitches, wiggles, false moves etc. (Those wiggles are the essence of trading. Is is a retracement or a reversal.) 2. When your vendor offers only hypothetical results (these people have either been shaken down by the cftc or they are smart enough to know they can protect themselves with a disclaimer. 3rd. when your vendor or guru will not trade live in front of you or produce students who are currently trading live in front of you and making money. 4th. When your vendor is not embarassed to pull up charts and say this is where you would have entered and exited. (any real trader would apologize and say but I make the calls real time.) When your vendor pulls this stunt say where did you enter and exit. Then after he responds ask him for the fill reports. 5th When you vendor wants the money up front. A real trader has no problem letting you seem them work in some limited fashion. (this is big.) 6th When your guru uses non traditional terms for no apparent reason. This way they can keep you as a student without revealing anything to you as you "learn". 7th When your vendor makes wild claims. such as never has a loss. 85% winners etc. this is a version of nazi disinformation --- You know tell a big lie often enough so people will believe you.
Thanks for the itemized list jem. I'll be sure to print it out and run it past any vendors/gurus I come across here at Elite Trader. Opps, already have (and boy did they come up short). Good trading, Jimmy Jam
This list is also applicable for non-vendors that saids they are real trading. Many ET members have been exposed of such by other well known ET members (ex. a few were exposed in the Trader P/L threads, Journal threads et cetera). However, their escape/disclaimer clause is that they weren't selling anything... No harm done even though they had some faithful followers...some praising the trading ability. Mark
8. Snake oil salesmen always seem to have a secret formula, or whatever, that they're going to bestow on you [as a starter enticement] just because you're special, or usually, ".. it's only going to cost you $$$X more (gasp!) to get in on..."
jem i have a question do you think if a guru posted in real time his trades on a web site for over two years and that system was claimed to have made money for the people who used it by the people who used it - not some small cult following. and the system was free and the logic was fully disclosed so anyone who wished to could see for themselves if it worked or not. just meeting that criteria would someone be considered a bogus guru? mark brown
This leads into another discussion that went no where a few years ago. Is the method real enough to be marketable as a profitable method if for example 70% of those using the method are losing while 30% using the method are profitable. Thus, how many traders (percentage) does it take so that a non-vendor or vendor to be able to claim the method works??? Mark
Why would I call such a person a bogus guru. However I might call that person with a name like yours a total son of a bitch because when I visited a site he apparently owned and I downloaded a system from his site (perhaps the 8ball odd ball system you are mentioning now, i believe your site infected my computer with the hideous cas client virus worm. so if I am correct I think you are a reptile.
Wait a minute Mark... Are you saying the vendor or non-vendor is responsible for HOW clients use (or don't use ) a method?
A fake "guru": Sells his "knowledge" instead of using it for himself. Charges a flat subscription fee (often cheap) instead of charging a % of the profits.
Here is how a vendor,"teacher" reacts when he is called out to show his "expertise" in real-time by calling out some trades ; vanishing in air http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90490 and we all now about that other "guru" with thousands of posts and unsubstantial claims and no proof in any way