How to calculate leverage when trading futures

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by Pekelo, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Yes, sure...

    I think maybe there's a misunderstanding here somewhere. When I talk about "margin", I am really referring to "margin requirement". To use your terminology, the house has a rule that, in order for you to participate in the game you've described, where you bet $1 for every flip of the coin, you need to put, say, $20 into an escrow account held at the exchange. This $20 is an absolute amount that has nothing to do with your account size, a priori.
     
    #21     Jul 20, 2017
  2. Hold on a moment...

    My question wasn't about margin. I was asking about what happens if I apply your formula.

    Case A: 2 ES contracts: leverage = 2 x 2473 x $50 / Acct Size
    Case B: 1 GEU7 contract: leverage = 1 x 98.655 x $2500 / Acct Size

    These quantities are very similar, if my arithmetic is correct. Does that mean that my account would be as leveraged in case A as in case B, according to your definition of leverage?
     
    #22     Jul 20, 2017
  3. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    Yes...

    Also, since NQ's 1 point is $20 and the value is almost 6000, that makes its notional value almost the same as ES's. So if you trade 2 ES, you have to trade 5 NQs to have the same leverage.

    Basically you can hedge ES with NQ if you use the 2:5 ratio...
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
    #23     Jul 20, 2017
  4. Ah, that's fine, then...

    If this is the case, then your notion of "leverage" isn't really all that useful, at least not to me. I know, just from simple common sense, that leverage characteristics of the two cases I've given are extremely different. This is further corroborated by the different margin requirements that CME computes for them. Using your formula produces estimates of "leverage" which make no relative sense.

    I will not be nominating you for a Nobel. Sorry, mate.
     
    #24     Jul 20, 2017
  5. lindq

    lindq

    The famous last words of an over-leveraged and busted trader:

    "BUT IT WAS SUCH A GREAT SYSTEM."
     
    #25     Jul 20, 2017
  6. I'm not sure whether I understand both the text and the formula. The text mentions as example a 1% drop in index, resulting in a 12% account value drop. Thus it talks about a relative change. The formula only applies to a 100% drop in index (ES in this case).
    I thought that the formula should be something like:
    Lev = (Ctr# x (current price - buy price) x Point value)/Account size
    Ctr#: number of contracts used
    current price: the current value of the index (ES would be 2473)
    buy price: the buy value of the index (e.g. ES bought at 2465)
    Point value: the value of 1 point (ES is $50)
    Acc Size: Your account in dollars

    What is it that I'm not understanding correctly?
     
    #26     Jul 21, 2017
  7. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    Well, since apparently I don't have a Nobel prize in math, I am not sure I can explain it but I will try.

    The text was just an example, I could have used 2% index drop with a 25% account loss. The idea was with the text to show how leverage works. The formula is for general usage, no matter what the index drop. You are trying to make it for just one particular move, but the leverage is the same as long as you use the same number of contracts with the same account size.

    As others pointed out, the formula can be made simpler:

    Lev=(Ctr# x Notional Value)/Acct Size

    Where the Notional Value = Current Future Price x Point Value

    Now the Point Value doesn't change, and the Current Future Price usually changes just a few %, thus we can look at the Notional value as an almost constant component.

    So out of the 3 components of the Leverage formula, most of the time only the Contracts used and the Account Size changes, the Notional Value is fairly constant.
     
    #27     Jul 21, 2017
  8. Overnight

    Overnight

    I do not see how trading futures contracts has anything to so with notional value of the underlying. Please explain.
     
    #28     Jul 21, 2017
  9. In the formula given by the OP,
    Notional Value = Current Future Price x Point Value

    The notional value is based on the current price of the futures contract, not the price of the underlying index. The formula is correct.
     
    #29     Jul 21, 2017
  10. Overnight

    Overnight

    I understand notional value. But why in trading a futures contract should it have any bearing on a futures contract trade, assuming we are not holding to expiration of said contract?
     
    #30     Jul 21, 2017