How religion made America go nuts

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by Frederick Foresight, Oct 8, 2021.

  1. Wallet


    And here

    #11     Oct 10, 2021
    studentofthemarkets likes this.
  2. stu


    Spill the tea Wallet! that was all of 12 years ago.

    You didn't accept the actual historical events then and you probably won't now, but you know what it's like.
    When one's trenchant Christian beliefs are formed not on the factual or historical events but nevertheless regardlessly held as true, then actuality and reality tends not to matter.

    North America was already founded by the Spanish and Europeans from 1493 through settlement and trade nearly 100 years before Plymouth Rock Pilgrims ever set foot on land.

    The Founding Fathers formalized that historical era, profoundly excluding Christianity within the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. The complete and clear purposeful exclusion of the word Christ, Christian and Christianity is sort of a clue that the America was not being founded on any of those things .

    You have Adams saying one thing, I have Adams declaring the opposite.
    He was a Christian who knew how to keep church and state separated.

    While Christians sometimes claim that America is founded on Christianity, it does little more than suggest Christianity must then inevitably be at the core of everything that's wrong with America.

    Interestingly, John Adams eventually became a Unitarian, rejecting the so called divinity of Jesus.
    #12     Oct 11, 2021
    Frederick Foresight likes this.
  3. stu


    Politicians especially like to use that phrase to push the idea all good values are Christian values, while at the same time they can pretend they're including Jews.

    It's a dog whistle term, intending to subsume Judaism into Christianity. Islamic-Judeo-Christian values probably comes next.

    In the end maybe it's a good thing when it dilutes the general sense of culture being wedded to a single religious idealism.

    A good thing also, as good values which Christianity falsely claims to be their own but were already present and common in humanity may no longer become shrouded in religion's divisive superstitions, as if it was a reasonable thing to do.
    #13     Oct 11, 2021
    murray t turtle likes this.
  4. Wallet


    Everyone debunked your revised historical rant years ago. Go read any State Charter, Constitution, whatever...... all, ALL acknowledge the God of the Bible. It’s been explained why the authors used grandiose adjectives and names for God. God’s divine providence and existence were understood and assumed by everyone and was not defended in text. Nearly every signer of the US Constitution was a member of a Christian Church, many were pastors.

    Vikings roamed the east coast long before Spain came poking around. Yet they didn’t organize into states and nations. The one’s who did acknowledged and thanked the God of the Bible for their provision.

    I’ll repeat the closing of and old post it sums up today’s society and the answer to the OP’s assertion.

    I'm confident that God's Law, or the Ten Commandments isn't the problem with today's society ..... but rather mankind's hardened, sinful heart.”
    #14     Oct 11, 2021
    studentofthemarkets likes this.
    #15     Oct 11, 2021
  6. stu


    " A few other factually and historically incorrect Christian posters agreed with me years ago"

    This is about the Founding of America not being based on Christian values made explicitly clear by the exclusion of specific words like Christ, Jesus, Christian or the God word in the Declaration of Independance and Constitution. Not state charters.

    Except only for once as a single isolated mention at the beginning of the Constitution, God is not mentioned anywhere again. Funny that considering how all those strident Christians and pastors were wandering around everywhere .

    Draft and proposed original documents do not show the entry nor the inclusion of the word God in the Constitution. Some early documents show how the word God became added above the text itself.
    The way it was eventually ratified with one single isolated mention, clearly indicates it was to allow one's own personal interpretaion of what a God is to be defined as. Christian, Muslim, whatever.... or nothing at all.

    Quite obviously as afterthought, an appeasing gesture for the bat shit crazies around then as now, who wanted to make America a theocracy like Iran.

    You sound at least as obtuse as you were those 12 years ago. But then that's to be expected. Your apologetics can more easily rely on sharing misinformation, history re-writes and fake christian news these days.
    #16     Oct 11, 2021
  7. The title of your post should be “how lack of religion made America go nuts”.
    #17     Oct 11, 2021
  8. %%
    Good + right+ why some hate any kind of rules, limits, US national debt downgrade by S&P, or common sense.........................................................................................................
    #18     Oct 12, 2021
  9. %%
    HUH?? As if you think Jesus Christ being Jewish is nothing??
    As if, you think,the 99%-100 of the Bible was written by Jews, means nothing??
    #19     Oct 12, 2021
  10. stu


    Thanks for your comments %%murray but it's like this....


    Obviously the vast majority of Jews do not believe in the Jesus Christ of the New Testament or that character was the Messiah.

    In that very, what shall I say, VITAL respect. there is nothing Judeo about Christianity. Whether the Bible was written by Jews or not, makes no difference to that point.
    #20     Oct 12, 2021