What you are talking about is 'utter BS'. Just shows that you have not spent enough time understanding how the markets work. Individuals who have spent time, money and energy in understanding the markets will realize what is going on in the "markets of today". I am sure you will disagree but don't worry this will be my last post on this thread - no use in getting into a war of vitriolic words with people who know zilch but think they know it all.
So you're saying stops are never run? If so, I find it laughable. If you were making a market in a highly liquid issue, and you could see the order book, and you had a better idea than the average piker where the stock was going, and you knew that you could shake a few thousand shares out and make $0.50 on them, are you saying you wouldn't do it? Why the hell wouldn't you? The majority of pikers put their stops in the same place. Run them and make a few thousand dollars a day. You're saying that a few Gs a day isn't worth it to the MM? Your post ignores the fact that paper is marketed and the MMs know who is marketing paper and when they are doing it. Don't get me wrong - most newbs think that the reason the market goes against them the second they enter their position is that someone can 'see' their order and is shaking them out, as in them personally, which is of course wrong. The reason is that they enter at exactly the wrong time. I know, I've been there. But this doesn't mean that stops aren't run. Lastly, not sure why you think that market makers are 'probably' getting their clocks cleaned. I think they're probably making money.
Of course stops can be run. My point was that there are many participants involved in markets, not just daytraders.
8 years I have been trading full time. Never a losing year. Provide for my family and love the fact you think I know nothing about markets. I trade 8 million shares a month and make a great living. My bet is you don't even trade.
Market makers always know your positions, know where your orders are, know where your stops are, and know just what it will take to get you to throw in the towel. They are all knowing, they are omnipotent, the are the gods of trading!
when you say your stock dropped .70 cents out of the blue,that can happen with a thiby traded stock or an NYS stock where the specialist can hold orders. to avoid being shaken out,try this:market makers do know stops and will attempt to sake a few orders out. taht is what they do i only use stops after a stock has consolidated for the day and it looks like it is breaking resisitance;i then put in stops just below consolidation areas. 1)average in 2avoid trading from 11-1:30 3)careful when buying the open.
BS or not, this is happening. In fact it has happened to me so much that I now use it against them. If I want to take a 1000 share position I will sometimes fire off an order for 100 shares hitting the offer. My order will be filled and the market will immediately drop (the computers are programmed to do this), I will then fire off another 100 share order to see if it will drop again, and I will usually end up filling the balance of my order at a much better average price than if I had sent in the entire order in one shot. I have been trading actively since 1995 and what I am seeing now is very different to how the MMs used to operate before. Whether or not they care about my 100, 500 or 1000 share order is not the point, the fact is that they have programmed their computer systems to do this and can monitor your position automatically. Echo
I realize that a thinly traded stock can drop out of the blue, but when it happens repeatedly the instant your order is executed you know that the game is being played. I use this against them in that I will fire off small orders and average in to the position, getting a better average price. Echo
I trade frequently as well, who is your broker? I am looking to try someone new when Schwab takes over my beloved Cybertrader. I trade only around 800K shares a month so I don't qualify for the deep discount . Some of the suggestions here so far are very good.. Averaging down or up starting with a micro position keeps you off of the radar. The MM's don't know who you are, but know good and well when everyone is trading 100 lots and an order is in for 500 or 1000 they have an opportunity. The conspiracy theory is wrong in the way it it perceived. Yes there is some collusion to create head fakes, if there wasn't then it would be too damn easy to scalp large runs. If you have ever seen a huge order in a NYSE or AMEX stock of like 40k get eaten up very slowly and when it has dissolved the price does not run through it, it was likely some MM's selling to themselves to head fake a breakthrough. How can MM's sell to themselves? it's easy... I have done it myself. I have sold myself shares in AH at 7:59 PM of a security I own 15% above the close price to synthetically give my account a closing value that carries my day trade margin 15% higher x 4 at the open. Your DTBP stays the same all day no matter fluctuations in net worth at many brokers, it comes from your net worth at the previous days close. Why would anyone do this? I did it just to see if it was possible. Did I break the law? Good question... Wait , who's knocking at my door .. it's the SEC ... ahhhh... LOL Why do you think the market sometime runs up in the last half hour instead of ramping up all day? because the amount of capital it takes to run it up in the last half hour is 1/10 of what it takes to sustain it all day !!! get it? Now for the good part... hedge funds operate on 10:1 margin, so if they can inflate their position they can achieve what I did but 10x instead of 4x ... Since it is illegal for funds to manipulate price in extended hours or in the last several minutes of trading in some stocks they attempt this in the last hour at some point. No conspiracies towards individuals really, only conspiracy to make their accounts look good on paper.. LOL