$500K is the RISK RISK RISK Capital to start to make a comfortable living. There are opportunity to get $500K capital if that trader knows how the game works. Unfortunately, more than 90% of small traders do not have that kind of capital still believe $5000 is enough to start trading full time and earn $10K per month income. Remember, more than 90% of small traders lose. THEY JUST LOSE!!
Glad to see the voices of reason in this thread. Those who claim 30%+ a month, 100%+ gains a year returns are "reasonable" simply haven't been doing this very long. They probably had a 15% month, and are feeling adrenaline coursing through their veins. Let's put it this way. Babe Ruth's career OPS+ rating is 200 (where 100 is the league average). The financial industry average returns is (generously) around 10-15%. If you consistently return 30% a year, you're already Babe Ruth. For you to consistently return 100%+ a year, you are 3x better than Babe Ruth... you know, hitting 180 home-runs a season.
Yep, banner years are not only possible, but quite normal. During the past couple years I had a year of +800%. Scaling became an issue in a hurry, and it is still something I'm struggling with. I can pretty much guarantee I won't have a repeat performance this year. Not that I won't make money, but I just accept the fact that it isn't realistic to get those returns every year. {edit} And I still work a nice comfy day job, and add to my investment accounts every month. "don't eat your children"
Oh, pulleez. Living proof: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=213286 Discounting last year, his return not less than 65% per annum.
That's interesting choice of "discounting". I'd rather discount his first two years when he had $15k in the bank, than last year when he had $400k. Are you also going to discount where he is this year? (Flat) neke has had a great run, and I'm a big cheerleader for his continued success. However, 6 good years (4 great years and 2 down years) does *not* a career make, especially in this industry. And the size of the drawdowns he sees are reflective of the risks he puts on. If he keeps at this for the next 10 years, I see him doing no better than 30% a year annually compounded over the course of his career. And yes, I mean that as a compliment.
But that is the point. You can't just say, "discounting last year". Last year happened. You might say that it's ok because he had made enough to handle it by then, but that was mainly the result of an 800% year early on that took him from being a minuscule player to simply being a tiny player. He had no idea when that negative year was gonna happen.
Bone, don't take this the wrong way but you come off as someone who tries to sound like a know-it-all. I have no personal insight into Kingstree. But, I read it was, a long time ago, one of the major sources of volume for the ES E-mini. I also read that many of those big traders didn't save and aren't very well off now. How do you know that there are "plenty of good traders" who can average $1900 per month on a 2-3k account? Were you told this or did you see the real money track record? I find the latter more difficult to believe as most people aren't willing to show other traders their track records. And, let me be straight we know margin requirement is not account requirement. Can you do this? Can you teach me how to do this in your mentoring program? I am interested to learn more.
Tell that to szeven. http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...perpage=6&highlight=trader p/l&pagenumber=874
I know Chuck McElveen personally, so I guess that I do have some insight into what was the Kingstree Business Model. You're the name dropper, not me. I was a Chicago prop trader for several years myself, and I have clients who are currently Chicago prop traders. I have clients in the UK and Gibraltar who are prop traders at Schneider, and I have Australian clients who are prop traders at Silk Road. I have two clients in Singapore who are prop traders. It is a big mistake to compare futures ROI's with equity portfolio ROI's. And given the fact that I have a very good idea about what kind of returns get generated, I have no reason to fabricate stuff. Any average futures trader can generate a couple tics a day in profit on average. Shouldn't matter if he's a scalper or a position trader or a spread trader. The performance bond margin requirements are a matter of record posted and updated on the exchange website.