By "profitable" I meant, profitable on a lifetime basis (not just "last 2 months"). Not having to work does not matter. Paper trading doesnt count either.
You may wish to read a book by Gary Smith. It is autobiographical. To see a possible shortcut along the path, you may wish to read the dosha stuff in Deepak Chopra's books; "Perfect Health" is a zinger for moving from imbalance to balance once you know who you are. By comparing Gary's trip and Deepak's balancing, you will find out how your personal path is proceeding. The above makes it possible to see the fork in the road you may be approaching. As we see Trader Zones is running a toll house on the wrong fork and knows all the people who pass his way. I suggest that your opbjective is to take the correct path when you come to the fork. The choice is to strive to make money or to strive to learn. Gary smith tried to make money for a long time; then he took the fork to learn to learn and to learn how markets work. Deepak suggests that you get in balance and have an intention. An intention is like a seed or a glowing ember. Either becomes something when given the help that is needed. It is a priori that in markets the minority control. Trading is absolutely the most delightful and energizing thing a person can do because it is so enabling. Indirectly, you also get to anything you want in your life. Your post explains you have discovered something about yourself. You see that there is a need on the table. You do ask about things traderzones logs away in his toll house. The answers to these questions are not your real needs. Consider turning to learning to learn. Find out how that works. Then make the subject of learning the markets. It is problem solving at its finest. One thing I have found is that being trained as a scientist is helpful for having a good problem solving orientation. This orientation is one where you are taken away from erroneous efforts and, on the other hand, to a thorough understanding of how markets work. Markets are living things and they live to provide for their purpose. Basically they tranfer money from a provider to a receiver. Therefore, focusing on the tranfer process is how to play the role of user instead of a provider. The process is descriptive in terms of the market variables (P, V) and NOT the percent of losers and winners as a body count. Winners and losers are equal and in balance if you use the correct measure. Traderzones fails this test. After giving markets a thorough looksee, it comes down to four moves on volume and three moves on price for each half cycle. Each follows an order and completes the order. By watching this pair do their things as they do them; you are able to continually extract capital offered to you where you play the continuing role as a receiver. Scientists call this deductive reasoning or critical thinking. Deepak Chopra, if he studied the markets as he would a patient, would call this single repeated pattern of the markets, a mantra. Can a person learn to learn and then see the pattern? Yes. Can a person use this observable pattern to continually extract capital? Yes The words for the parts of volume are peak and trough; the words for price are going left and going right (in reference to trend lines, price's container). When you trade above the market's capacity, you get partial fills. Attached you can see how Friday began for me.
I was profitable immediately trading 200 share lots after I left my job. Of course I had been trading for over a year before I went full time. That was back in 1996. But when I went to 1000 shares (back in the SOES days), with more $$ riding on each trade I found the stress to be more and ended up not being willing to cut losses short. I lost close to $30K (of my $90K account) before I turned things around. Some years are better than others - much like someone in sales that sees 'lumpy' income. But I've made a living trading since 1996.
Thanks Jack Hershey and DHOHHI, Jack Hershey: I actually agree with almost all of what you have said. Believe it or not, I came into the market just wanting to make money, but after studying it for a while, I've seen a spectacular amount of detail in it (fractals). I would have never thought in my life I would be studying charts at 2am on a Friday night, but thats what I have become. And I tell anyone that asks, I absolutely love learning more about the market, and delving deeper into it. Its like, the more I study the charts, the more detail & relationships I see. I feel like a biologist who just received there first electron microscope and is able to see varying levels of complexity I'm an engineer also (my day job), but I hope to make trading my new career after I am able to master my emotions and mind during trading. One thing that has surprised me (keep in mind, I never traded any stock before Jan 2009), is how intensely personal and psychological trading the markets has been. I think most people (average joes) believe it to be just like gambling in Vegas, when in reality, I think the mirror that trading makes you look into is one of the best benefits of it ! I've learned and uncovered so much about myself (trust, my emotions, etc).
i lost money when i was stilll working a non-trading day job because of an OTC stock that i got married to. i have 10+ years, 1 was a loser; would be a winner with today's commissions. a couple of my early years weren't substantial enough profits.
I too was an engineer in my former life. As a trader you can't always analyze a 'problem' (i.e. the market) in as much depth as you might analyze an engineering problem. Another point - I also used to study charts for hours each evening. I no longer do. Over time you develop an intuitive feel for the markets and my trading has evolved to that mode. I buy/sell/short/cover based quite a bit on gut feel and prevailing market psychology. To this day I still go for singles and doubles and don't try to hit home runs. Small profits can add up nicely. But a big strike out (going for a home run) can wipe out a lot of hard earned profits.
Thanks DHOHHI, I hope I can transition to that level one day (eg: being able to integrate my system so much into my mind, that its just intuition). Do you guys trade intraday or longer time frames ? I'm curious ...
I lost money for two months with 25 dollar commission in a soes shop. I went to bright trading where I paid a thousand dollar seat charge and about a dollar 25 for 100 shares. traded my ass off with 100 shares for part of year. Was down about 1 grand after 6 months but then they lowered my commission so I was about even. left - trained with guys making money. Made 400 the first day by being more aggressive and then scaling out. It was interesting the difference between breakeven and very profitable was very very small. I took two things they were doing and grafted it into my setup and I was killing it. In fact those guys took part of the setup I was using. Made good money the next 5 years. Almost every week was profitable. Slowly the edge went away. If you really want to trade for a living trade really really small until you are making money very consistently. If you can't devote the time to learning your chances of making it to profitable are very low.