"The whole 30 years thing is silly". Nothing could be further from the truth. The problem I find in trading discussions is that many are apt to treat it as if it were just like anything else, and make ill considered comparisons based on this frivolous assumption. The next thing which is apt to happen is that the newbies, because they cannot distinguish sense from nonsense, go on to spout rubbish and contradict really experienced senior market minds based on their own assumptions. These assumptions are founded on nonsense, as the vast majority are unwilling or unable to learn to think correctly. If people behaved correctly and were respectful, they may get the answers to the questions they ask, or better yet some help in learning to ask the right questions. If people made the effort to learn to think correctly then they would know which questions were inappropriate for the asking (much like your friend asking about the edge in Euro). Unfortunately the people behave the way they always have and most likely always will, so the true experts clam up and only discuss with other senior market minds where there is no brain picking or head drilling - instead honest sensible discussion among equals in a professional manner. As people are unlikely to change I do think it sensible that you discuss only with other professionals. The conduct of the majority makes this essential. I have only four years in this business, and am not naive enough to think that this qualifies me for anything, much less making silly arguments or trying to engage a senior market mind in market discussion. If I'm around in another twenty years that is something else, however I believe one cannot afford to lose his humility in this business. If I still remember my place in twenty years I will be doing something right. Exactly. Those who are anywhere near getting it do not need it explained as they are doing their own thinking. Those who know have already profiled losing traders to death, and have consequently understood the character required for continued success. I would like to thank you for your comment on the other thread, that a fool has all the answers while the wise man has all the questions. That is a gem! Very kind regards
Investing experience is cummaltiive, this is not taking clients to dinners experience or doing customer service for 20 years where its repetitive, its a dynamic process where new information and procedures are learned in every trade almost. In the trading business, more "profitable" experiences you have, the more profitable you will become. Market profit = Experience * Capital.
Two points and i'll leave it alone . . . 1) My point of view (backed by empirical evidence) is that everything changes eventually and you have to adapt, so I don't believe the 30 years is cumulative like you and a few others are suggesting. If you were to rank all profitable market professionals by "years of service", it wouldn't show anything. 2) I'm not a newb, and I'm not a 30-yr professional either . . . and I'm guilty of setting the wrong tone with my initial reply. So beat me up all you want . . . I'm willing to learn under any circumstances - if you have something to teach. Nonethess, I asked a good question and when anybody says "you wouldn't get it", that tells me that the person doesn't really have a good story to tell or is not genuinely interested in sharing or teaching anything. In either case, that's a shame. JS
yep...anyone who says less than 500k is simply delusional and not really a professional anyway... Running good for a year on 50k does not mean you "made it"..
The general standard is: for every million dollars you have invested, you get $40,000 a year. (that number comes from retirement planners giving goals to retirees, who will mostly invest in "guaranteed" things like bonds/moneymarket/cds)
What in God's name are you trading? The original question implied that the poster was new, so only $500.000.00 to get started trading and your not a professional? Well $25,000.00 or more gives you a certain status legally and in some cases you can get an account opened for $500.00. So 500,000.00 if your trading 10 lot option spreads maybe but still!
The thread title implies no additional income stream besides for trading. Even an over leveraged system that returned 100% a year on 25k would put you below the poverty level after taxes. Since you would have to be over leveraged on that amount of capital, a bad drawdown is just a matter of time..Then you have to start skimming off the bankroll to pay the bills and a downward spiral has already started. To me the point of trading is financial freedom, not so you can be lazy and not work a job for a few years until a drawdown. 500k is a reasonable amount where you can start to reach an escape velocity of returns out pacing spending and truly building the bankroll with a nice cushion for draws. Yea its a big mountain to climb, boo hoo.
it's possible up to a certain size account, if you can find a edge. of course, how big that account can be varies based on your edge. many edges *aren't* scalable - if they were, the big boys would use them or have bought them - but great for individuals. you've got to know that, right? i'm not a BSD or anything. just trade my own edges, try to do it on a consistent basis, keep size within my parameters, and do it day in and day out without screwing up.