That's quite an example you chose to give. Are you suggesting that you typically make 17 points per contract per day in ES? And that you make about 25% a day on your capital trading ES in the normal course? Or is this just a cartoon example presented for illustration purposes only? Do tell.
So the smart guys don't take big swings but (!) they go 20:1 at times because they're able to outsmart the market and know exactly when to leverage their account out to the sh**house and when to play it safe. I do not know what you mean by saying that I have an "investing mindset", all I know is that I love preserving my capital. "Abnormal" returns to me are X% with drawdowns < X/3% after commissions and cost of capital. My hat is off to anybody achieving that or better on a consistent basis (Y after Y after Y) because this means you're doing better than most by a large large margin.
This is a difficult thing to explain. As you can see the flaming is already beginning. Often people work in precentages. To do this it takes some moifications of the answer if you do not want to just have the decimal eqivalent of the ratio of the fraction. By mutiplying by 100, you move the decimal point two places to the right and you hve a "precentage." I did want to be helpful and I knew before hand that it would read to a lot of flack (not from you but from others) I was just explaining what I do and not saying that anyone else has to be like me in any way. It is my belief that if people really focus on what is going on in the markets, they get to a point where they see a lot of potential for making money. Occasionally, they take this new belief and turn it it behavior. What I hope for also is that people begin to look at why they are in the drawdown busness. It represents lost time, primarily. And it is not a good idea to be losing money at any time. The percentage calculations on all of this stuff is the first step in becoming able to see what is there for the taking. Percentages are also good for doing self-evaluation and making observations on skill level rates of increase. The OP of this thread is really in the dark on most of this at this point. further, he actually has the belief that he is studying this and that from one viewpoint or another.
I felt that just beginning the conversation at some level would make it possible to go into more detail later. I do not day trae stocks except for "slush" money. That is money that is in my accounts that is leftoverr from streams of capital. People who day trade are using leveraging as a rule and especially if they are scalping. I often check to see in the P/L thrad how a person is doing. Most often the prints are incomplete so no percentage can e made. Here is an example: A person made 5,000 + dollars and he traded 250,000 shares. This means he made .02 dollars or 2 cents a share traded. This is a method of doing somehing day after day. He may be leveraged since he is scalping. He has achieved having an account that can make 5 to 20 thousand dollars a day. This is a wonderful achievement and he can withdraw profits day after day for other applications and for his life style. What he does is make money through price change over time. We all do and we do it in different ways. So we cannot give a percentage of profits on this account because we do not se the information posted. We just see the bottom line and the # of shares traded. Both of these number allow scalpers to compare themselves to others and to self checking. I do have margin in my account. And I have a credit card too. I use neither as a rule. Why don't I? It is not my style for stocks and I never did. One thing I did early in my trading was take out all of my original capital. So all my calculations nowadays are on money that is profits only. This is OT but it does point out how a person can trade and not feel that he can ever lose. I lose frquently ut only very small amounts and the loss is money that came from profits only. To do calculations, when you are leveraged, you will see that you make larger precentages than when you are not leveraged. The index trading shows that in the example.
Let's see now... Stevie Cohen is self made, started trading in 1978, and is currently worth $3 billion according to Forbes. You post endless drivel that doesn't test out here and elsewhere on the internet, and you've been doing so for years. How incredibly delusional.
Trader666,I am no Jack Hershey groupie,but I have followed Spyder Traders P&l pretty closely.His first year,he knocked home 100% unleveraged.Granted it was on small size on small cap names,but to his credit he did go long and short.. I am as skeptical as the next person.I also find it hard to believe someone could produce 200%+ returns without leverage,but for whatever reason,I believ Jack speaks the truth...