How Many Daytrading Firms Will Survive 2004?

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by grimer11, Dec 15, 2003.

  1. Sources tell me HOLD BROTHERS are on life support and are seeking a firm to take them in.......1st New York Securities is the name most bandied about, but who knows? Assent unceremoniously closed it's Denver office this past week....The people I "work" with do not come within shouting distance of paying for their costs.......Does anyone believe there is a real possibility that ALL daytrading firms will be absorbed or run out of business in the next 12 months?.....Will the specialist system survive the year?........I personally pray for the best, but the developments of the past year (married puts, 5 cent rule, specialists under attack, ever declining volume and liquidity, Worldco's demise) have me anxiously pessimistic.......Of Assent, Schoenfeld, Hold Brothers, Bright Trading, Generic, 1st New York Securities, who is most likely to fail and remain?....Again, I pray for everyone to prosper, but I believe this to be a major inflection poin for our industry and would like to hear other peoples' opinions..........Thanks in advance and best fortunes for all.

  2. from what I heard worldco didnot 'go out of business' they simple decided to focus on the institional side of the business. So they are out of biz for the prop traders. Also heard they paid out most of the prop traders money with the rest to come soon.

    Most of the other firms you mentioned have consitently profitable traders along with groups of new traders whom continualy rotate out as they fail. Many people are exposed to the new trader groups as the experienced groups are not very public with what they do. I think there could be some consolidation in the business, but we will not see firms dropping like flies as many people think. The consistently profitable traders will not go away, either will the firms they trade with.

  3. I like it......thx.

  4. I think the days of hiring 100 traders and hoping 20 stick around are over.

    In my opinion having been a full time daytrader for 4 yrs the firms that will thrive are the ones that concentrate on continuing education and mentoring.

    Three weeks of training then "go get em" doesn't work anymore.

    Just my 2 cents.

  5. ..well I just read a posting on for Assent hiring here in San Francisco ...but be prepared to make some sort of "risk capital' contribution ...I doubt it is 100% backed position..but I could be wrong..I didn't apply or call.

  6. I trade retail with ETG and from what I have seen from their management and some of their prop traders, I think they will be around for a long while. Just my 2 ticks
  7. From what I understand Assent is probably the strongest along with Bright. I know Assent has has the backing from Sungard and that is huge. As long as they dont lose money they are fine. Bright I am told is so selective (and smart) with their traders, that they have never had a losing week!(not sure how true) Anyway I for one am gonna look to switch to Assent in the very near future
  8. We are in a bull market and in general I think it has been easy to make money in the past year. Why then I ask are all those prop firms closing shop? To me it seems that if their traders were really as successful as the firms claim they are those traders would create new entities to trade pooled money, so if some firms shut down because of increased competion from retail brokerages and regulatory changes others would pop up with a real proprietary trading business model not a commission/desk fee based business model. Is it really the case?
  9. Keep in mind, program trading of late has been 46% of the new york volume. Day traders have to feed off the rest, making it a much more difficult game......especially in a market that spends half its time going sideways.......I agree.....continuing education is the answer....but it better be individualistic, or severe crowding will continue to occur.
  10. I agree, we do very personal mentoring here where I trade.
    As a matter of fact, I do it myself, and am available for our traders from 7:45am - 6pm.

    Group teaching only goes so far.

    #10     Dec 16, 2003