How long before you were fully automated?

Discussion in 'Automated Trading' started by travis, Apr 18, 2009.

How long did it take you, since you started trading, to become fully automated?

  1. 0 to <= 1 year

    22 vote(s)
    18.3%
  2. >1 year to <= 2 years

    16 vote(s)
    13.3%
  3. >2 years to <= 5 years

    37 vote(s)
    30.8%
  4. >5 years to <= 10 years

    25 vote(s)
    20.8%
  5. > 10 years

    20 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. They do.

    It's called Computational Finance.

    Some may argue that it's Quantitative Trading, not Systematic Trading... That's just one reason Maestro calls ET traders Amish.
     
    #51     Apr 21, 2009
  2. It's equal. Programs and the strategies are always side-to-side.

    1. Strategies are limited by the programming you have done for your tester and the execution engine.

    2. The program you have is basically the reflection of how you approach your development process.

    You trade intuitively, and that's very much fine. Many opportunities in the market are counter-intuitive. (At least, counter-intuitive from my perseption.)
     
    #52     Apr 21, 2009
  3. bespoke

    bespoke

    I agree. I was mainly speaking in terms of the early stages of development for the strategies that most individual traders would use, especially here on ET.

    I spend most of my time these days working on execution. The finishing touches.
     
    #53     Apr 21, 2009
  4. I actually want to ask a few guys...

    Why do you trade systematically to start off with?

    I'm asking because I read too much sh*t in ET about people starting off because of personal reasons (like an excuse for some psychological thing...) and feel that it's the only way to trade for "them". Most just seem to approach it as another extension of discretionary trading...

    Do people have a rational / logical understanding of the benefits of trading systematic and the underlying effort required to pay your bills as one?
     
    #54     Apr 21, 2009
  5. travis

    travis

    I am not that great a trader, but I can give you my sincere opinion.

    The first reason that motivated me to try strategy trading (back testing systems on tradestation) was to find out what worked. Not "approximately", but with a set of univocal rules. Until then I had been writing pages of "dos" and "don'ts", but I could never follow such rules, because they often conflicted with one another, and I didn't really trust them.

    But, years later, the first reason that motivated me to get started with automated trading (and it took me years before I could accomplish anything) was indeed a psychological one.

    I cannot use stoplosses. I get really mad when I lose (I almost feel offended by the market), and so discretionary trading always brings my balance to zero. I'll make a majority of good trades, but sooner or later, I'll make a bad trade that I won't exit, and then I'll keep that position open for days and weeks until I'll lose everything. I really think I am completely unfit to do any discretionary trading at all. I am saying this after losing money for ten straight years trying to get anything out of it.

    Then, once having gotten into automated trading, I have recognized its other advantages and I think that, even if I could make money with discretionary trading, I should never engage in it. The other benefits of trading systematic (as in the question asked above) I can think of right now are:

    - no emotions in any sense: automated systems never get excited after a win, depressed after a loss, but are always objective and balanced

    - constant alertness and focus: they never get tired

    - constant estimate of a whole long list of factors: a human could never weigh all the factors he himself has, one at a time, integrated in the system

    - preserving one's health: not having to stay in front of the computer all day preserves your health in many aspects

    - ...
     
    #55     Apr 21, 2009
  6. ronblack

    ronblack

    I agree with you but please do not underestimate the impact of computer glitches that make it so often appear that machines have emotions:

    Incorrectly written software (software bug)
    Incorrect instructions given by the operator (operator error) (this might also be considered a software bug)
    Undetected invalid input data (this might also be considered a software bug)
    Undetected communications errors
    Computer viruses
    Computer security cracking (sometimes erroneously called "hacking")

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glitch
     
    #56     Apr 21, 2009
  7. ???

    Which part of travis' post made you write this???

    I ask why people system trade >>> He primarily mentions about personal preferences >>> ... >>> ... >>> You write about software testing (Unit... Integration... Regression)

    ???
     
    #57     Apr 21, 2009
  8. bespoke

    bespoke

    don't forget speed of execution and the ability to monitor multiple symbols, instruments and timeframes.
     
    #58     Apr 21, 2009
  9. ronblack

    ronblack

    Read his post first.
     
    #59     Apr 21, 2009
  10. travis

    travis

    Yeah, everyone is right. I forgot to add, among the "benefits of trading systematic", speed of execution and the ability to monitor multiple markets/timeframes. And also it is true what ron said, even though he seemed to go off topic, that automated systems also have problems (that discretionary trading doesn't have), namely bugs and similar.
     
    #60     Apr 21, 2009