Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Riskmanager, May 11, 2004.
it seems you forgot those banana-republic voting machines without any paper used - somebody will get a majority (guess who ...) - nobody can recheck (recount) the results ...
at least that's the way it's been told in european tv.
NPR had something on about 1-2 weeks ago about how poorer counties in florida had a 1000fold greater chance of ballots being disqualified. the voting boards threw out an estimated 1.9 million votes in florida because of this, all in poorer, primarily african-american communities where people are likely to vote blue.
i mean, what are the chances of such a close election in a state where jeb (member of project for a new american century) bush is governor?
considering kathleen harris is still around, i'd bet we're in for more of the same in 2004, which is precisely why smart people should get off their pampered asses and vote in november.
oh yeah, then there were also all the people in florida whose votes were disqualified because they had the same last name as a felon...
Another successful attack on American civilians, on American soil, would insure his reelection.
A couple of suicide bombers on the subway would do it.
With out the fear factor, he will not win.
another home-grown "terrorist" attack and suspension of elections in which case every should exercise their second amendment.
Sheesh, get over it, you guys lost Florida and the election. You're still bellyaching about it four years later? FYI Karthyn Harris was so despised by the voters of Florida that she was elected to the US House of Representatives. What did she do that was so awful anyway, other than follow the timetables set out explicitly in the law?
What is so ironic about the Dem's attitutde is that they have benefitted enormously from vote fraud over decades. Does the phrase "Cook County" ring a bell, where the motto was vote early, vote often? How about illegal immigrants voting in California and defeating B-1 Bob Dornan?
There was a federal investigation into claims of voting discrimination in Florida. It turned up bumpus. Just a lot of lies and nonsense. And those counties with all the minorities who lost their votes? They have Democrat-controlled elections boards, just like Palm Beach County had. So the Dem's are tossing out their own votes? I don;t think so. Those would be military personnel's absentee ballots they were throwing away.
hey man, i'm not justifying voter fraud. i hate the bush family, thus i am going to whine most about anything that helps them get elected.
considering that florida was pretty suspect, what are the odds of that state being rigged when
1)harris was a card-carrying republican, and the campaign chair for dumya in florida
2)jeb's the govva-na
3)counties whose votes were thrown out were over 1000fold more likely to vote democrat
i don't know if you understand what P-values are, but empirically that'd point to a rigged election
Here's a fair and balanced book you might like:
The reviews seem pretty promissing I think.
Hey, sore losers, don't hate the playa, hate the game. Bush won, Bore lost. Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyaaaahhh. Stop your belly-achin' and get over it. Babies.
You know, with all the whining and waving of hands about:
- voting machines (Dems didn't piss and moan about use of card-based voting machines in districts that they won)
- butterfly ballots (they're used all over, so what about those in Florida who were apparently just too stupid to use them - especially since the ballot layout was designed by the Dems)
- supposed problems with handling ballots in poorer counties (is economic strada or race really the only possibility? How about education? The ability to read and follow instructions? The ability to understand how to execute a valid ballot?)
No one (especially the Dems, but also the Reps) bothers to deal with the far more pervasive problems in the voting system.
When Dems were screaming about wanting yet another recount in select Florida counties (the old "keep counting them until we get the answer we want"), they didn't ask for recounts of counties they'd won. They didn't demand recounts in all the other thousands of districts around the country that used card systems. They didn't demand a validation of voting rosters in Chicago and NYC to insure those casting votes were valid.
If you could replace every voting machine in the country with some yet to be developed, wet dream, super-secure, extreme tested in the fires of Hell electronic voting machine equipped whatever audit trails, cross-checks, and 2048-bit encryption that you want to imagine to perfectly guarantee the accuracy of totals - it would be a big SO WHAT??!!
That's not where the systemic flaws lie and not where the fundamental problems reside. Fraud, malfeasance, and corruption are endemic and institutionalized. Not to mention wide-spread party machine processes geared to take advantage of the ignorant, uneducated, and incompetent.
As AAA noted, in Chicago the motto STILL is "vote early, vote often" and the dead still get out of their graves to cast their votes - they vote for Dems (because it's a Dem controlled city).
My wife's grandfather died 20 years ago - he's still on the voting roster (relatives who still live in his neighborhood see his name in the book everytime they vote) and since there's also a signature in the book by his name it means that someone has been voting for him all these years - wanna bet it was a straight Dem ticket vote?
And since they don't use a centralized voter reg book, you can be registered in multiple locations around the city. And because you don't even have to show any ID to prove you're who you claim, anyone can and does vote in your name if you haven't voted by the end of the day (or you're already dead or they know you no longer live in the neighborhood).
I've even run into people in line at the polling place who openly admitted that they were given the day off from their City job to go around town and vote - and they had the voter receipts to prove it (the receipts were implemented decades ago so people could take them back to party bosses as proof so they could get paid).
In New York, it's even worse (they've been at it longer) - the board of elections is overflowing with political hacks and lackies and personnel are allowed to work for their parties while still on the clock and being paid by taxpayers (and these are the same folks who never seem to take any vacation or sick leave (because no one every keeps track) during their 20 years of employment and then expect to collect extra pay for 80+ weeks of accrued vacation/leave when they finally quit.
You can register to vote without showing proof of citizenship, ID, or that you actually live where you claim. You can even do it by mail. And since the board (as in Chicago, etc.) doesn't ever bother to validate you or your address (or that you live there) - it's elementary for people to register multiple times around the city, use mail forwarding or Mailboxes, Etc. boxes (they don't even do a cursory check that the address you supply is a place of residence), and then on election day they're able to vote multiple times or they use multiple absentee ballots. It's understood that it's widespread, but no one at the board wants to do anything about it.
This kind of thing goes on all across the country.
So, it's NOT about the machines or the ballots (but pols shout about them because it's easy and easier for the feable minded to understand) - it's the whole damn, fundamentally broken election management system and the whole damn, fundamentally broken and corrupt political machines that use it in tug-of-war power grabs with the ultimate goal of enriching themselves at the expense of each of us.
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