How do you distinguish between the belief in God and the occult?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Brass, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. Epic

    Epic

    Not so much the suicide bomber. More the scientist who accidentally blew himself up.

    Anyway, that question is akin to suggesting that our universe is a small sphere being hurled in a joyful game of interstellar marbles (ala Men In Black). Maybe we live in "The Matrix". Would we know the difference in any of those scenarios?

    My point is that we accept the most plausible reality and base our axioms on that assumed reality. Religious people start with the assumption that a creator exists, and they seek to understand his/her/its methods. Non-religious people start with the assumption that a creator does not exist, and they seek to verify how all of this came to be in the absence of a creator.

    In every case, assumptions must be made and the entire theory hinges on those assumptions being correct.
     
    #171     Mar 23, 2012

  2. Wrong wrong wrong, non religious people see no proof of god so it would make no sense to pretend there is one. And the Jesus / Allah / Jewish god belief has nothing to do with science.
     
    #172     Mar 23, 2012
  3. Epic

    Epic

    Never said anything about Jesus having something to do with science.

    EVERYONE makes assumptions about their world. That is the basis of science. For the atheist...

    1) I assume that I exist.

    2) I assume that my perceived world exists.

    3) I assume that this world didn't just spontaneously come to exist in its current state.

    4) I assume that a creator does not exist, and was not the driving factor in the existence of my world.

    4) Therefore, my hypothesis is that....
     
    #173     Mar 23, 2012
  4. Brass

    Brass

    Not quite. Objective, non-religious people examine the evidence and attempt to draw conclusions therefrom, without an underlying premise. This is what disinguishes science from pseudoscience:

    [​IMG]
     
    #174     Mar 23, 2012
  5. Epic

    Epic

    Nope... in the accepted scientific method. Assumptions and Hypotheses come BEFORE examination of evidence. Otherwise it is just psuedo-science.
     
    #175     Mar 23, 2012
  6. Brass

    Brass

    A hypothesis, yes. But not always and not necessarily. Creationism begins with a conclusion. See the difference?
     
    #176     Mar 23, 2012
  7. science. For the atheist...

    1) I assume that I exist.

    2) I assume that my perceived world exists.

    3) I assume that this world didn't just spontaneously come to exist in its current state.

    4) I assume that a creator does not exist, and was not the driving factor in the existence of my world.

    4) Therefore, we use evidence based on observation and test to show us how the natural processes came about.

    contrast with a creationist:

    1) I assume that I exist.

    2) I assume that my perceived world exists.

    3) I assume that this world didn't just spontaneously come to exist in its current state.

    4) I assume that a creator does exist, and was the driving factor in the existence of my world based on writings in a 2000 year old book written by men who thought thunder and lightening were god speaking.

    4) Therefore god did to so there is no reason to search further.
     
    #177     Mar 23, 2012
  8. piezoe

    piezoe

    I'm taking Epic's side here, and your side too. :D
    Talk about being on the fence!
     
    #178     Mar 23, 2012
  9. Epic

    Epic

    Yes, always and necessarily. Any previous evidence must have been gathered during a previous experiment. You are then using the prior conclusions as new assumptions. "We are going to assume that the prior assumptions were correct and that the test methods were valid. If we make those assumptions, based on the prior conclusions we now hypothesize that...."

    I think you're exaggerating the extent to which creationism begins with a conclusion, and under-emphasizing the extent to which non-creationists do the same.

    Both are assumptions, but both are equally valid from our current point of understanding. IMO, the following statements are equally ludicrous.

    "Nothing in our universe existed until suddenly a massive explosion resulted in a separation of space, time, and matter."

    "Nothing in our universe existed until God instructed everything to organize."

    In both cases, what existed before nothing existed?
     
    #179     Mar 23, 2012
  10. Epic

    Epic

    LOL, that is a gross exaggeration and you know it. You've just suggested that everyone who believes in God, also believes in your opinion on what the bible is. Then you suggested that a belief in God eliminates the desire to understand our universe.

    Your prejudice is astounding.
     
    #180     Mar 23, 2012