How do I get a job at proprietary trading firm?

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by curiousv, Dec 22, 2018.

  1. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    Look, it not impossible. Can’t hurt to apply. The reality is these prop firms want fresh, smart students right out of top schools with more than basic math and programming skills. They have a selective process for choosing summer interns. From the summer interns, they take the best and the brightest and train them. Even large hedge funds want specific skills and they typically are not looking for equity day traders.
    #31     Dec 22, 2018
  2. qlai


    You've come to the right place then :)
    #32     Dec 22, 2018
  3. it is almost impossible to get into a proper prop firm in your (and my) situation. as mentioned, they only recruit strong meats out of school and train them, which makes sense for them. i graduated 10 yrs ago during the credit crisis and went into the corporate side to survive. having missed the entry point, i find myself totally shut from joining a proper trading desk. thats life, lets face it.
    #33     Dec 22, 2018
  4. sle


    I would say that it's not really true, as I have seen plenty of people come to institutional finance relatively late in life and progress pretty quickly. What really makes a difference if the skill set you are bringing on board is somehow interesting. It could be anything that could be incremental to the bottom line of the firm, from embedded software design (HFT firms eat these people up) to intelligence analysis (shit, I'd hire someone like that myself). Now, the bad news is that in most cases your personal trading experience will not count and probably for a good reason.
    #34     Dec 23, 2018
  5. canoe


    you're probably not going to get a job at a prop firm unless you go to one of those bucketshop types with huge turnover that require upfront capital.

    not sure why you'd want a job at a prop firm though if you're a discretionary trader. maybe 10-20 years ago that would have been helpful but with current technology and internet services available, it's completely unnecessary.

    do you lack capital? work a day job while trading on the side until you become profitable and have enough capital.

    don't wanna do that? sure, take a shot at topsteptrader or oneuptrader which will give you capital as long as you can pass their tests. if you don't pass the tests, well good! you would have lost money trading your own money anyway so in a way, you saved yourself some money.

    are you seeking mentorship or learning to become a better trader? welcome to one of the greatest equalizers of the 21st century: the internet! quality mentorship in real life in this field is already extremely rare and quite often involves a ton of luck/connections in the first place. the good thing is so many teachings about trading are available online, either in forums like this or private chatrooms, etc. almost all trading books can be found on libgen for free. there are just so many resources available to you in today's world that can help you grow as a trader right inside your computer.

    commissions are cheaper than ever. trading platforms are more sophisticated than ever. spreads are tighter than ever due to algos and market makers. honestly, this is the best time in modern history to be a retail trader. i'd just embrace it if i were you.

    people keep blabbering on about how the quants and their algos are creating an uneven playing field. it's total bullshit. you have to realize quant trading firms compete with OTHER quant trading firms due to the strats they use. most of them are employing similar strategies chasing after the same inefficiences which is why alpha in the quant trading world has dramatically reduced, esp when inefficiences lack scale. just look at how quant funds have been getting killed left and right the past year. you'd think a fund filled with the best mathematicians, computer scientists, statisticians, physicists, etc. would obviously beat those uncouth, discretionary trading liberal arts majoring scum. it's almost a disgrace that they aren't all outright outperforming discretionary oriented funds by a solid 30-40% across the board given they're all geniuses from the very best schools but that's the reality of it.

    just keep working on your trading skills in the mean time. the great thing about trading is it's probably the only profession in the world where your income can be compounded minute by minute. it's really fucking easy to run up your account balance when you get good at this, more than whatever you'll be earning as a trader at Akuna, DRW, DV Trading, etc.

    honestly i don't get why people here have such a hard on for firms like Akuna or DRW. They'll hire talented quants for around 300k-500k only to milk their strategies for TENS of millions of dollars. then when those quants are upset with how much they're getting fucked in the ass and attempt to leave, these firms will pursue all legal avenues possible to make their lives miserable for their 'betrayal.' you ain't gonna be earning millions working at these prop firms and if you were the type of person just trying to earn a few 100k dollars a year, then wtf are you doing trading? For just a few 100 g's, I'd be working as an engineer, lawyer, or doctor being a productive member of society. Eventually any trader who wants to earn real money is going to have to go out on his own. That's the end game in this profession. So don't worry about prop firms not hiring you. If you are to ever make it big in this game, you're gonna have to work for yourself anyway, just like any other retail trader.
    #35     Dec 23, 2018
  6. Not when you are based in Asia, where people see an IBD+research background is somehow useless for investing
    #36     Dec 23, 2018
  7. qlai


    I like what you are saying, but not sure you can compare what you can learn on your own with professional trading. It's like getting good at miniature golf and thinking you are on the same level as PGA players. Although, I don't think prop firms is the best place to learn "the tricks of the trade" either, especially the tech heavy market making ones mentioned above.
    #37     Dec 23, 2018
  8. JSOP


    You are gonna really learn a lot of "tricks of trades" with that attitude. LOL I feel so sorry for the one who's going to mentor you IF you get into those proprietary trading firm as an "assistant trader". Don't need to shout. I won't be reading your posts ever from now on. Good luck to you and to this trader in this proprietary trading firm who would want to hire you that you are going to be an assistant to. You and him/her are both gonna need it! LOL
    #38     Dec 23, 2018
  9. sle


    Maybe you are talking to the wrong firms? I can think of a number event-driven funds that in HK/SG and love people with equity research or murders & executions background.

    Well, time to do some remedial mathematics. Let's assume for a second that your personal trading is making 30% ROC and you are starting with 100k (very reasonable, if not too aggressive assumptions for most of the population). As a fairly junior trader at say DRW, you are probably taking home 350k. How long do you need to be trading your personal account to have an income equivalent to that of a junior trader at DRW? For simplicity, feel free to assume that you do not need to eat, never get sick and you can sleep in a cardboard box under the Brooklyn Bridge.

    Senior traders at prop firms (usually they are called portfolio managers) are paid a percent of their P&L. That payout ratio can be very generous, e.g. Jump pays 35% if your Sharpe and ROC are high enough. So you can certainly become a millionaire easily working for a prop firm or a hedge fund. Now, the firms (especially the PMs) are rightfully upset when someone joins, learns the how the alpha is extracted and leaves after a few years. Usually, these people did not get paid because they did not really contribute to the bottom line and somehow that upsets them.
    #39     Dec 23, 2018
  10. JSOP


    Do you actually get to define your own risk parameters and make your trading decisions based on them or do you have a set risk management model that you have to follow in trading or managing your portfolio?
    #40     Dec 23, 2018