How can the SEC tell if youre 'spoofing'

TommyR · Jul 3, 2019

i think tradeworx built them a machine which can monitor the book fast enough to catch anyone sending orders with type beclown

REDP1800 · Jul 4, 2019

bone said:
As a speculator yourself it’s a given that the counter-party trade activities that matter to you the most - the large spec accounts and Commercials are using very sophisticated software in order to execute large positions with the smallest most inconspicuous footprint possible. Some of these execution tools use AI to break up and inject orders in very ingenious and stealthy schemes.

We also know that there exists a population of speculators whose sole strategy is to prey on other other speculators exclusively by manufacturing deception - they game the order book through crossing trades, quote stuffing, stacking, flipping, and spoofing The purpose of which is to create a false illusion of market activity whose goal is to compel other naive traders into executing trades into a bias narrative that enriches them. And most of the spoofers use automation.

So why would you trust the micro architecture of the market? And are these “footprint” tools capable of segregating garbage from useful legitimate trade volume ? (the answer is “No” / they don’t have access to individual trade identifier tags).

The reason that Market Profile has held up so well over time is that it incorporates a “time at traded price” and a very novel “Control Area” concept with some clever rules. It’s essentially a vertical histogram with a rules set. As I learned from Pete Steidelmeyer - price changes over time, and the market’s acceptance or rejection of a particular price is very useful information for a speculator.

I started trading in the pit, and I quickly learned NOT to fade size.

And I was an early trader in Project A and Globex - and you’re right about electronic markets attracting nefarious gamesmanship.

To me, price sensitivity is much more important than what volume changes hands at a given price. And spoofers themselves are price sensitive to extremes - you can really tell by the way they stack an order book to favor a particular bias and to induce trading into the bias that enriches them. I can’t tell you how thousands of times I’ve seen orders stack up in a DOM - and then cancel when a better price trades. If they truly wanted to get filled they’d leave the orders there.

To radically simplify it (too obvious these days, btw) - these guys will stack the offer side of the DOM with four 1,000 lots a couple tics or so away from the best offer - bid for fifty, then sell twenty-five to themselves (cross) - just to get small specs to puke into them. Even for good measure they might have parked three or four bids below best bid and cancelled those in order to induce small spec panic selling into their illusory fleeting bid. And they will do that shit hundreds or maybe thousands of times a day. These spoofing Algos will even sense other spoofing Algos and amplify the order book imbalance. They are an invasive species. They are not legitimate liquidity providers in that they inject thousands of orders into an exchange ECN that they cancel without even a partial fill. Their message-to-fill ratios are obscene.
More...

yup..yup..yes..this is real. bank on this one. the idea that what you see is in volumes is real in futures is preposterous. you have no idea who is trading or why. what the motives are..setting up for a trade in 10 seconds, a hedge, or a trade for a year from now. 1000 lot trades are done in less than a second at 1 lot intervals. lots of times this volume spike is to visually reduce volume bars on peoples charts. you dont motive Nuances in volume for 20 or 30 minutes after those big bars reduce all the following volumes to small illegible color on the screen. also ALL histórical charts in futures and stocks show phantom pricing. due to futures rolling and stock splits. spread charts show lots of phantom bars..where you couldnt have possibly been filled and no one was filled. it is a relative value chart not actual. spoofing..happens u cannot execute it properly anyway..feel free to think your spoofing..you will get run over. cancelling is legal. hft..own the mkt

REDP1800 · Jul 4, 2019

no one watches anything until someone reports it just like the real police. someone must bring light to a situation and it goes like this...large hft at the cme..normally banks 1 million a day. in the past week it has only been 950k a day..why? well someone has figured out how to game our algo! this is spoofing. they report it to cme muy. oversight and engineers. if new player is small..they threaten him say stop. he doesnt they go after him. this is truly how it Works. hft is back to averaging 1 million a day. problem solved. its not a free mkt. lastly..the big hft work directly with cme engineers who make changes in the trade engines for hft firms.

REDP1800 · Jul 4, 2019

short answer . you are consistently making big money and you shouldnt be because no one in retail makes consistent big money in short time horizons. when you do..you stick out like a so re thumb or a black swan or a fat tail in a normal distribution. no program needed.

REDP1800 · Jul 4, 2019

REDP1800 said:
short answer . you are consistently making big money and you shouldnt be because no one in retail makes consistent big money in short time horizons. when you do..you stick out like a so re thumb or a black swan or a fat tail in a normal distribution. no program needed.
More...

key word is consistency

Log in or Sign up

How can the SEC tell if youre 'spoofing'

TommyR

REDP1800

REDP1800

REDP1800

REDP1800