Hold Brothers

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by giladbi, Feb 24, 2004.

  1. giladbi


    Does any one have any opinion on this prop. firm?
    service? quality of execution softare?
    any chance thay will go dwon as worldco?
  2. worldco was in a unique situation, signed crazy leases and got killed with costs.
  3. Worldco had many other problems. Not the least was that they made a fortune since the came into business. Their problems came from a slow market and traders not able to make money. Hold Brothers has other problems. They have given out too many good deals and are working on a skeleton back office. I would not be comfortable doing business there.
  4. Not accurate. Worldco had plenty of traders making very good money. Don't just repeat the ignorant comments of other ET posters who themselves didn't know what they were talking about when it came to Worldco. But yes, they had leases that killed them.
  5. Mecro


    Nah actually atlast is on the money.

    Worldco had quite a few profitable traders but Worldco was barely making anything from them. They gave out such ridiculous deals just to keep those traders, meanwhile taking hits on new and non-profitable traders. They were running traders through like cattle so overall their traders were quite unprofitable.

    Hold is like the low end of all prop firms. They are definitely competitive and keep their costs down which certainly reflects in their office. But there definitely is something uncomfortable about this low cost low end operation. Their traders are profitable though.
  6. giladbi


    cann't it just be that they being much more efficient with their money?
    what do you mean by low end? the execution look to me very good. the rest is up to me / you.
    i am asking because i also not comfortable. where is the trick if any?
  7. Sorry, but still not accurate. Worldco's rates were higher than the rates some other firms (like Hold) are offering now. In fact, since Worldco went under, most Worldco traders seem to be getting rates that beat what they had at Worldco (and obviously the traders wouldn't be getting and keeping these rates elsewhere if they weren't profitable traders). And the new traders that were losing money at Worldco had put down thousands to be there, and they were often paying elevated fees. So Worldco wasn't eating any of their losses. Bottom line is that Worldco went under because of stupid leases and gross mismanagement (nevermind that they also knew they were gonna be hit with a big fine and that the ownership was going to be banned from running the firm).
  8. i'mlong


    you should ask them how their quotes are now!
  9. sure they are since both of holds nyc offices are stuffed with them
  10. Mecro


    See I heard from many reliable sources and even some of their good (not top) traders that some of the rates Worldco was giving at the beginning of their demise were simply ridiculous. They were starting to come down to .003-.004 like over a year ago. Even if you are self clearing, that's not much profit to be made considering the costs of having office space. Yeah and their costs were overblown but I think it was manageable as it was before when they did not have to stoop so low with rates just to keep their producers. Their blow out is definitely a combination of factors.


    I visited Hold and overall I have nothing bad to say about them. They do have a very solid execution system, their rates are very competitive, the CEO seemed very upfront and honest (very important!), and they definitely have great traders (this one group in Jersey city is SICK). But just like atlasttrading said, there is definitely smth uncomfortable with such a low cost, skeleton office operation.
    I was not even concerned about rates and Hold was willing to give me a 20% rate cut. Hold is self-clearing but the rates they are giving, it is extremely hard to make a solid profit for the firm itself. It's almost to the point where it just seems too good to be true.
    Some of the other firms simply refuse to give such rates. I can see that Hold is grabbing traders from other firms by undercutting rates but I also know that some of these traders end up wanting to leave back to their old firm for whatever reasons.
    If rates are the biggest concern to you, Hold is a great answer. But rates were not an issue to me, I had some other problems that I took care of within the firm. If I were to leave my firm again, Hold is definitely my choice.
    #10     Feb 25, 2004