High Speed Trading Unfair To Retail Traders

Discussion in 'Trading' started by vingbel, Jul 23, 2009.

  1. bighog

    bighog Guest

    Good stuff, agree with assume the worst. Retail traders have ALWAYS played with disadvantages and imperfect info, that's just the way it is.

    When us small piker retail traders place a trade there is not a single soul out there that gives a rats ass what we are doing. Yes, i know, it helps a fragile ego to think we matter.

    Speaking of speed, the retail trader still must realize by the time the quote shows up on the chart, etc .........it is history. Then also realize that you must process the info, then the answer must flow from the gray matter between your ears (hopefully some cells are actually active) down to the finger that then must hit the mouse................now the quote you received is not only historic but ancient.

    What to do? Try this: Anticipate what the big dogs will do by getting in their shoes and inside their heads as they see the same levels as targets as we do. there is no way we can compete AGAINST them so lets try and join them as a couple have suggested. I like to think i am a step ahead of the big dogs most of the time. Why not you? :) :D

    PS: The end of the bike race is super cool. france is a beautiful country and Paris, supremo. Have a good day.
     
    #101     Jul 26, 2009
  2. I'm pretty sure NYSE issued a correction and GS was #1 that week same as usual. This was all on the Zero Hedge blog.
     
    #102     Jul 26, 2009
  3. Bingo. If you don't want your order flashed turn off that function. It is optional on BATS/EDGX/NSDQ which are the routes under debate.

    If you do your volume with lots of small orders, these Flash orders are great. Price improvements are pretty common.

    If you're sending a large order via one of these routes it doesn't matter whether your order is flashed or not. Someone is going to step in front of you and pull bids/offers. It's the whole reason algos and darkbooks were created in the first place.

    The small investor should be benefiting from flash orders overall. It's the big funds that are the "victims" if you can call someone who should know better but is too stupid/ignorant to protect themselves a victim.

    Having said all this I think there likely is abuse here. I think the solution is to allow orders to be flashed only to "passive" dark venues, ie venues that only match buyers and sellers and do not carry any inventory of their own. This would be something that could be easily regulated and implemented.
     
    #103     Jul 26, 2009
  4. Its more like saying people shouldn't group drug dealing with pharmaceuticals.

    I do HFT and I most definitely don't do any front running (ie. using any information which isn't public knowledge). IMO front running is a form of insider trading (trading with knowledge which hasn't been made public yet).

    Lots of the proposed 'solutions' to front running would kill my ability to offer liquidity/improved pricing services to the market. Not that the policy makers are as mind numbingly ignorant about the subject matter as the general public. I think I'm pretty safe.
     
    #104     Jul 26, 2009
  5. d138

    d138

    I find it's funny when people on this forum are complaining that HF traders have there severs collocated and thus they beat the retail investor. So what? Some of average investors are on DSL and others are on FIOS, clearly FIOS guys have "unfair advantage". Should government go ahead and prohibit use of FIOS in financial operations?
     
    #105     Jul 26, 2009
  6. qft :p or like saying any business needs to gimp down their technology or practices because average joes cant afford to compete with them on the same level. Grr US Airways. Their ability to 'buy' and 'fly' planes really hampers my ability to extract profit from the transportation market. So unfair. QQ. Welcome to free market economics.
     
    #106     Jul 26, 2009
  7. I agree with all the above except the elimination of the broker. I think that brokers should be optional, but I like being able to get someone on the phone that I know when things go wrong, which is every now and then.

    It bugs me to have to pay for feed data from what is essentially a quasi government entity.
     
    #107     Jul 26, 2009
  8. I totally agree with your points on exchanges screwing people with data fees. Why not get that revenue from trading fees instead? I have some platforms where I'm paying $60-$100 per exchange on the charting application & then another $60-100 for the execution platform *on the same exchange*!

    Yeah, STOP all this "colocation" BS altogether!!!

    I'm tired of these FU%^$ing games & rules made to just scam the smaller trader.


     
    #108     Jul 26, 2009
  9. d138

    d138

    That does not make any sense. Ok, we will prohibit collocation with ECNs and make SEC the single source of exchange data. So, firms will start collocating with SEC or whatever will be itstelecom provider. Retail investors want two things at the same time: cheap data feed and fastest possible access to the exchange. That is not possible.
    You will never be able to make a system where 1 millisecond faster makes not difference. Even if you enforce that orders should be send via USP or pigeon post, the firm that releases the pigeon 1 msec faster will benefit from it, so there will be always a speed race.
     
    #109     Jul 26, 2009
  10. DHOHHI

    DHOHHI

    Woe is me. So many aspiring traders have little, if any chance of success if they constantly whine about all their disadvantages. So you can't compete speed wise with the institutions. Rather than bitching about that why not look at the advantages you have over the institutions. I've found that if I'm in a position, long or short, it's a heck of a lot easier to exit that position if I hold 5000 shares than if I want to unload 50,000 (100,000) or some large institutional quantity. Any decent trader can make $$$ in any market, whether a prop trader or retail. But anyone who points to reasons why they're at a disadvantage has the deck stacked against them from day one. I'm starting my 14th year of full time trading and have more confidence and expectations of higher profits than any time in my past.
     
    #110     Jul 26, 2009