High Risk High Reward Trading

Discussion in 'Journals' started by Millionaire, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. Let me pipe in with some theoretical unpleasantness....

    1. OP "went live" after 2016 low... arguably THE MOST BULLISH market behavior seen in generations.

    2. OP claimed "35%-ish gain for January, -4% loss for February". Good as January was, February sould have been MUCH, MUCH better in any robust trading system. (Think maybe OP had a "long side bias" in January? Nothing wrong with that.. in fact, exactly correct! But you don't want to make the mistake of "confusing brains with a bull market".)

    In the long run the market is a marathon, not a sprint. We'll see.

    Call me skeptical, but I don't like his chances. Sorry... hope I'm wrong.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    #21     Mar 7, 2018
    schweiz, comagnum and Handle123 like this.
  2. Hello Millionaire,

    Thanks for detailing your system results. I believe your system stats looks good for a day trading system.

    I do not understand when you state : "However the disadvantage is that day trading is much less scalable, especially if you want to diversify by trading some of the less liquid markets." Can you please explain?

    Can you just add more contracts to your system once your initial investment doubles or triple? That is what I plan to do. Once my account double, double contracts size. If my account double down, reduce contract size.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    #22     Mar 7, 2018
  3. No i do not bother to track exact slippage in my live IB account. tbh, slippage is not a major concern to me. I do less than 200 trades per year. If i was doing 500 or 1000 trades a year it might be more of a concern. I do agree with you that even with less than 200 trades a year it will have some effect on the back testing results. But not enough to concern me.

    No, the best year by far in the full back test was 2008. And there were 3 losing months in 2008, so even in excellent volatile markets the system still has losing months.

    I was talking about large scaling, with 7+ figure accounts, nothing us retail pikers need to worry about for now. Going from 1 to eventually 100 emini contracts in most markets should be not much problem for you especially if you are scaling into positions.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    #23     Mar 7, 2018
    SimpleMeLike likes this.
  4. Thank you for response.

    What platform are using to automated your trades?

    Does your system use very large stop losses?
    #24     Mar 7, 2018
  5. kenten


    Good luck to OP.
    if you cannot take 50% drawdown ,you should not be trading anyway
    #25     Mar 7, 2018
    SimpleMeLike likes this.
  6. I like your post,because you made new HWM from those drawdowns levels.
    If it did not you wouldn't be writing this.

    If you divided money traded between what you do now and enter other half after you made first bad trade or even onto three segments third when your system made 2 bad trades would this smooth things a little bit.You know the details,but since you risk 4 % per trade one way to smooth things out is skip segments.Because the strength of your method is mainly that your system recovered from those drawdowns.And lower same amount at HWM ,this way you gained 4-8% when skipped some trades.Times wise drawdown is longer and more frequent at your win rate.
    64% of your trades are unprofitable,would be worth it to address what has highest frequency of occurrence as a way to influence things from what they are now.
    I could be completely wrong as not all systems could benefit from doing this,i am only looking at numbers and time spend in draw down

    Good Luck !
    #26     Mar 7, 2018
  7. Handle123


    Am sorry, but all the backtesting I have done does not compute high rewards with these drawdowns and not including some kind of slippage, is dangerously making this worst. You might consider working on dropping the losing percentages, cause if you can drop this in half, guess what-your profitable side goes up, and when profitable goes up, you can increase size or in case for you, stay at percentage you are at. For me it be too aggressive as I prefer to stay under 1% at risk in any one instrument, I have all automated, and I find that day trading and scalping offers me the GREATEST risk in all of trading cause it be too expensive to hedge whether it is less than 1% or if I went to 4%, risk is risk, and high drawdowns only mean to me they will get make new highs in drawdowns just like making new equity highs, just don't know when.

    As far limits, always ETF options.
    I wish you luck.
    #27     Mar 7, 2018
  8. 4% of your account per trade is tiny. -- Risk way More than that for the potential greater gains and growth, But also refine your game.
    For many people, there's basically only one game in town. So the rest of your money or account is just sitting idle and not put to use while you only trade 4% of your account...doesn't seem very efficient to me.

    I trade option on the broad market SPY/SPX. that's my only game, and knowledge and experience and expertise. -- What will I do with the other 96% of my account...switch to Apple or a penny stock or a random commodity? All things I don't know and have no interest in trading, and most likely will go bust in those.

    Your stats indicate you're just relatively, simply gambling...and have no true edge/skill/market wisdom o_O, :confused:

    That should be more of a steady and consistent 3:1 or 4:1 or even 5:1 ratio. even 6:1 ratios and greater are possible, with expert traders who have carved their true niche in the market.

    The concept of Risk doesn't have to automatically be an ugly word.
    Risk can be an absolutely beautiful thing, in the right hands...because with Risk generally equals Gorgeous Rewards,

    2018 ET.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    #28     Mar 7, 2018
  9. JSOP


    Even though you maybe making higher returns than your drawdowns, you need to make sure that it's like this EVERY year. On the years where you have drawdowns larger than your profit, you would have no way of controlling how much you lose and the loss could be larger than all the previous positive returns that you have made and accumulated in your account.

    It's not how much you make that counts, it's how much you can keep in your account at the end of the day that counts. People who have made LOT higher returns than you have over LOT longer periods of time only ended up losing them ALL at the end, plenty of examples: Jesse Livermore, Lehman Brothers, Bears & Sterns, most recently that XIV-investing guy who made $millions only end up losing it ALL on ONE day on Feb. 5 just past
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    #29     Mar 7, 2018
    comagnum likes this.
  10. Ayn Rand

    Ayn Rand

    I agree with Lawrence-Lugar - "4% is tiny." If you know what you are doing go for it.

    I hear all these people - "I only risk 1% of my captial?" Sounds like something my Mother might do.

    Truth - not sure why you are telling us about your system and then leaving out all the important information. Are you looking for a job?
    #30     Mar 7, 2018